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| * th1a_ shuffles some papers around. | 16:29 | |
| th1a_ | hi jfroche, ignas_, aelkner, Lumiere. | 16:30 |
|---|---|---|
| aelkner | hello | 16:30 |
| ignas_ | hi | 16:30 |
| th1a_ | This should be a fairly quick meeting. | 16:30 |
| th1a_ | I sent a 2007 report to Mark on Friday and I'm sending the 2008 budget today. | 16:31 |
| th1a_ | I was still trying to figure out this SA thing, but based on the fact that my communication with them has been so slow, I'm going to have to say it isn't going to happen this year. | 16:31 |
| aelkner | SA thing? | 16:32 |
| th1a_ | I was talking to a school in South Africa. | 16:32 |
| aelkner | oh | 16:32 |
| th1a_ | Well, more talking to the developer. | 16:32 |
| th1a_ | I'll need invoices from ignas_, aelkner & jfroche for November. | 16:33 |
| ignas_ | i'll ask Aiste to send them | 16:34 |
| ignas_ | t | 16:34 |
| ignas_ | it | 16:34 |
| ignas_ | rather | 16:34 |
| th1a_ | ignas_: Did you get my email regarding next year's work w/you? | 16:34 |
| ignas_ | yes | 16:34 |
| ignas_ | but I and Aiste had no time to talk about it yet | 16:34 |
| ignas_ | sorry | 16:34 |
| th1a_ | Well... again, the budget is going in today, so I hope it is ok. | 16:35 |
| th1a_ | Beyond that, I'm going to force myself to work on SchoolTool.org. | 16:36 |
| th1a_ | Our LaunchPad packaging bug has been identified. | 16:36 |
| th1a_ | I don't think it has been fixed though. | 16:36 |
| ignas_ | cool | 16:37 |
| th1a_ | ignas_? | 16:37 |
| th1a_ | What have you been up to? | 16:37 |
| ignas_ | well - i have worked on lyceum gradebook for most of the time | 16:37 |
| ignas_ | i did some more ajax to make the gradebook easier to use | 16:38 |
| ignas_ | some of the CS teachers have actually started using it | 16:38 |
| th1a_ | Excellent. | 16:38 |
| th1a_ | Are you visiting the school tomorrow? | 16:38 |
| ignas_ | yes | 16:38 |
| th1a_ | Good. Keep that up. | 16:38 |
| ignas_ | i have some tasks that would be good for interns to do | 16:39 |
| ignas_ | the problem is that i need them done as soon as possible ... | 16:39 |
| ignas_ | and that needs communication | 16:39 |
| th1a_ | Yes... too many links in the chain here. | 16:40 |
| ignas_ | i guess most of the interns are only done with school after i am gone home | 16:40 |
| th1a_ | Ys. | 16:40 |
| th1a_ | Can you put them on LP? | 16:40 |
| th1a_ | Or I guess just an email? | 16:40 |
| ignas_ | explaining them using email with a delay of 1 day between emails would take as long as doing the tasks ... | 16:41 |
| th1a_ | I understand. | 16:41 |
| ignas_ | and launchpad is a bit like a black hole - you put something in there, and have no idea if anyone is even looking at the tasks | 16:42 |
| ignas_ | if i would be sure some of the interns that want to work on schooltool would be online | 16:42 |
| ignas_ | i can connect to irc from home and talk to them | 16:42 |
| th1a_ | Yes... | 16:42 |
| ignas_ | the important thing is coming up with some specific time for the meeting | 16:43 |
| ignas_ | that they can commit to | 16:43 |
| th1a_ | Well, jelkner and I will have to try to come up with something that will work. | 16:43 |
| ignas_ | i will shift my schedule accordingly | 16:43 |
| th1a_ | Generally, though, it is hard to imagine that remote interns would be able to offer reliable turnaround. | 16:44 |
| ignas_ | i know, just that i don't have any other resources ... | 16:44 |
| th1a_ | Sure. It would be nice if we could make it work. | 16:45 |
| ignas_ | and most of the changes lyceum are asking are "makes sense, current situation is bad, would take 1-2 days" kind of changes | 16:46 |
| th1a_ | That's what I'd expect. | 16:46 |
| ignas_ | which could keep me busy from doing anything else for quite a while | 16:47 |
| th1a_ | Well, I guess the turnaround time is the question. | 16:48 |
| th1a_ | Also, how endlessly this level of issue would be generated. | 16:48 |
| * ignas_ suddenly feels like pushing for outsourcing ;) | 16:49 | |
| th1a_ | I could add some Indians to the budget. | 16:49 |
| ignas_ | interns are filling in for indians at the moment ;) | 16:49 |
| ignas_ | which is why the analogy | 16:49 |
| th1a_ | Yes. | 16:50 |
| ignas_ | well that's all from me | 16:50 |
| th1a_ | Well, you are going to have to devote a big chunk of time soon to the whole "moving through time" set of issues. | 16:50 |
| ignas_ | i know, i am thinking about solutions to that problem | 16:51 |
| th1a_ | So there is that, plus small improvements to Lyceum, plus general maintenance of the codebase. | 16:51 |
| th1a_ | Would it make sense to focus on Lyceum stuff until the end of the year, and then focus on the time issues. | 16:52 |
| th1a_ | ? | 16:52 |
| ignas_ | wel | 16:52 |
| ignas_ | i guess, i will still be pushing the greater agenda in the background | 16:52 |
| ignas_ | but at the moment - that's what i am doing, focusing on lyceum, while thinking of possible ways to implement the moving through time issues | 16:53 |
| ignas_ | before they switch to the next term | 16:53 |
| ignas_ | if possible | 16:53 |
| th1a_ | Oh yeah. | 16:53 |
| th1a_ | It would be good to get terms working before next term ;-) | 16:53 |
| ignas_ | which is in the beginning of january | 16:53 |
| th1a_ | That gives you a good excuse to focus on that now. | 16:54 |
| th1a_ | It would also be helpful to aelkner. | 16:54 |
| aelkner | I think jelkner wants terms as soon as possible | 16:55 |
| aelkner | for january as you say | 16:55 |
| th1a_ | Well, everyone would like them before next term ;-) | 16:55 |
| th1a_ | So putting off small refinements in the gradebook seems justified. | 16:55 |
| aelkner | i guess so | 16:55 |
| ignas_ | aelkner: if you could come up with specific things jelkner needs it would be nice | 16:56 |
| th1a_ | I would be very happy to have the time issues handled sooner rather than later. | 16:56 |
| ignas_ | because i only know the lyceum requirement side of terms | 16:56 |
| aelkner | i'll be meeting with him in Virginia this week, so I can ask him | 16:57 |
| ignas_ | i see | 16:57 |
| th1a_ | I don't think it is different. | 16:57 |
| th1a_ | Kid withdrawing but needing to retain the records is the main thing. | 16:57 |
| ignas_ | i am not doing that yet | 16:57 |
| ignas_ | what lyceum needs is - hiding old sections | 16:58 |
| ignas_ | and removing old things from the timetable | 16:58 |
| ignas_ | it's not the end of the schoolyear yet | 16:58 |
| th1a_ | Well, focus on what they need. | 16:58 |
| ignas_ | i would like to know what jelkner needs, so I could do at least some things in that direction | 16:59 |
| th1a_ | Sure. | 16:59 |
| th1a_ | I'll send jelkner an email. | 16:59 |
| aelkner | i'll put together an email with him after we have met to discuss his needs | 16:59 |
| th1a_ | OK, thanks ignas_. | 17:00 |
| th1a_ | aelkner? | 17:00 |
| aelkner | well, you know that i had that nasty issue with the inherited requirements casing an infinite loop | 17:00 |
| ignas_ | nope, haven't heard about it | 17:01 |
| aelkner | i found the source of the problem by doing some tricky debugging | 17:01 |
| aelkner | ok, i'll explain | 17:01 |
| aelkner | stephan's requirements package has this concept of inherited reuirements | 17:01 |
| ignas_ | yes | 17:01 |
| aelkner | they wrap requirements and have an attribute of original that refers to the wrapped req | 17:02 |
| aelkner | well, for some reason, while unpickeling | 17:02 |
| aelkner | the ZODB had instantiated an inherited requirement with an empty __dict__ | 17:03 |
| aelkner | so it tried to get the __setstate__ method | 17:03 |
| aelkner | but the gettattr method only calls the self.original to get attrs | 17:03 |
| aelkner | but since the attribute dict was empty, that caused infinite recursion | 17:03 |
| aelkner | a nasty problem to debug as putting the trace in __getattr__ wasn't helping | 17:04 |
| aelkner | just typing self would lock pdb | 17:04 |
| aelkner | finally, i figured out that __dict__ was empty, so i need to talk to stephan about that | 17:04 |
| aelkner | i haven't gotten a hold of him yet, but I will be looking for him | 17:05 |
| aelkner | the good news was that welsh was able to restore the section | 17:05 |
| aelkner | by deleting the section and readding the students to it | 17:05 |
| ignas_ | do you have a way to reproduce the problem? | 17:05 |
| aelkner | i have the bad Data.fs | 17:06 |
| aelkner | but welsh could not find out what the teacher did to cause he problem | 17:06 |
| ignas_ | how big is it? | 17:06 |
| aelkner | i'd have to look, why? | 17:06 |
| ignas_ | and can you compress it and give it to me in some way | 17:06 |
| ignas_ | i would like to look at the problem | 17:06 |
| aelkner | yeah, it exists on my machine, zipped | 17:07 |
| aelkner | i just need to give you an account and then you can scp it from there | 17:07 |
| aelkner | how about after the meeting? | 17:07 |
| ignas_ | ok | 17:07 |
| ignas_ | by the way | 17:07 |
| ignas_ | if you are interested in doing a small task | 17:08 |
| ignas_ | the "sections" index view | 17:08 |
| ignas_ | is quite important | 17:08 |
| aelkner | the container view, right? | 17:08 |
| ignas_ | yes | 17:08 |
| aelkner | is there a blueprint or bug report in LP? | 17:08 |
| ignas_ | don't know really | 17:09 |
| aelkner | what do you mean then? | 17:09 |
| aelkner | what is quite important? | 17:09 |
| ignas_ | the bug is quite short "if you go to your section (a section you are teaching thus have a permission to view), and click on sections breadcrumb - you get log in prompt" | 17:10 |
| ignas_ | we have talked about the section index view in the last meeting i think | 17:10 |
| aelkner | that sounds like a bug that jelkner submitted | 17:10 |
| ignas_ | and have decided that it should show all the sections you have view access for | 17:10 |
| aelkner | oh that | 17:10 |
| th1a_ | That's what I've been saying all along. | 17:10 |
| aelkner | yes, i could do that | 17:10 |
| aelkner | if the user is a teacher | 17:11 |
| ignas_ | yes, my point is - that lyceum needs it too, so if you want to do it, i'd be very happy ;) | 17:11 |
| aelkner | i'll do it | 17:11 |
| th1a_ | Good. | 17:11 |
| aelkner | so another thing i worked on was part 1 of changing journals to messages | 17:11 |
| th1a_ | That's an annoying bug. | 17:12 |
| ignas_ | look at CoursesViewlet for the correct approach to listing sections | 17:12 |
| th1a_ | Oy. | 17:12 |
| aelkner | ok | 17:12 |
| th1a_ | Part 1... | 17:12 |
| aelkner | yes, you see paul didn't understand what jelkner needed for journaling quite | 17:12 |
| aelkner | so he developed this complicated journal with messaging | 17:12 |
| aelkner | but our meeting down in Virginia last month yileded | 17:13 |
| aelkner | that we need to distinguish between a journal and messages | 17:13 |
| th1a_ | Yes, I know. | 17:13 |
| th1a_ | I just don't like being sucked into this. | 17:13 |
| aelkner | anyway, part 1 was to make journals as they are now look like messages in the UI | 17:14 |
| aelkner | so the users in Virginia will be talking about messages even if the objects are journal and journal entry objects for now | 17:14 |
| aelkner | later we will convert objects to be message objects (part 2) | 17:15 |
| aelkner | then develop journal objects as they really should be (part 3) | 17:15 |
| aelkner | but part 1 was the priority for developing the paradign for the users | 17:15 |
| th1a_ | And part 1 is all you need for now? | 17:15 |
| aelkner | welsh didn't want them confused as they were learning the system | 17:16 |
| aelkner | right | 17:16 |
| th1a_ | OK. Good. | 17:16 |
| th1a_ | So what else do you have planned, aelkner? | 17:16 |
| aelkner | anyway, besides that I haven't been able to do more than just think about what jelkner wants for final grades | 17:17 |
| aelkner | he has a good blueprint | 17:17 |
| aelkner | and i just need to create the right view for letting the teacher see the final grade and adjust the calculation | 17:17 |
| aelkner | according to special considerations for the given student | 17:18 |
| aelkner | that could be predicted in a calculation | 17:18 |
| aelkner | so the idea will be to offer an adjustment value that the teacher could enter | 17:18 |
| aelkner | that would adjust the final grade calculation any way the teacher sees fit for the student | 17:18 |
| aelkner | a + or - some value is all that's needed i figure | 17:19 |
| th1a_ | Like +20% for football players? | 17:19 |
| aelkner | :) | 17:19 |
| aelkner | exactly | 17:19 |
| th1a_ | OK. | 17:20 |
| aelkner | actually, his idea was maybe a B in quarter 1 would weigh less then an A in quarter 2 | 17:20 |
| aelkner | progress being rewarded and all | 17:20 |
| th1a_ | Makes sense. | 17:20 |
| aelkner | so the teacher could mack the adjustment without there being some difficult to make rule | 17:20 |
| aelkner | but you get the idea | 17:21 |
| ignas_ | aelkner: oh, by the way '%2.0f%%' % (value + 0.0000000001) could be replaced with "%2.0f%%" % round(value) i think | 17:21 |
| aelkner | so i'll work on that this week too | 17:21 |
| aelkner | you saw my float problem i see | 17:21 |
| aelkner | it was weird how 4.5 was not rounding to 5 | 17:22 |
| aelkner | is round a reserved word in python? | 17:22 |
| ignas_ | i don't think so | 17:22 |
| aelkner | so what do you mean by round? | 17:23 |
| ignas_ | well - "%2.0f%%" does some kinf of floor i think | 17:23 |
| ignas_ | well - round is a function | 17:23 |
| ignas_ | in python | 17:23 |
| ignas_ | but i don't think it's a reserved word | 17:23 |
| ignas_ | so you can do "round = 5" if you want | 17:23 |
| aelkner | ok, it's a already defined method like int(value), right? | 17:24 |
| ignas_ | while with reserved words afaik "if = 5" would signal an error | 17:24 |
| ignas_ | yes | 17:24 |
| aelkner | that's what i meant | 17:24 |
| aelkner | ok, i'll try that | 17:24 |
| ignas_ | and add a unit test for that method | 17:24 |
| ignas_ | just to be sure | 17:24 |
| aelkner | ok | 17:24 |
| aelkner | so besides the cando meetings this week, i'm not going to give cando much time | 17:25 |
| th1a_ | OK. | 17:25 |
| aelkner | as i've already given them more than the 33% that you agreed | 17:25 |
| aelkner | due mostly to the urgency of their problems | 17:26 |
| aelkner | and i will remain available if they have another emergency like last week | 17:26 |
| th1a_ | Well, technically the requirements bug is a SchoolTool bug too. | 17:26 |
| aelkner | otherwise, we'll see what the virginia folks due about budget | 17:26 |
| aelkner | that's true | 17:26 |
| th1a_ | So feel free to fix it once you figure it out. | 17:27 |
| aelkner | sure will | 17:27 |
| th1a_ | OK, time's just about up. | 17:27 |
| th1a_ | Any last words? | 17:27 |
| aelkner | i didn't do it? it was the butler? | 17:27 |
| aelkner | may a have a cigarette? | 17:27 |
| * th1a_ drops the bag of gravel. | 17:27 | |
| th1a_ | Have a great week. Send me invoices. | 17:28 |
| aelkner | ok, you too | 17:28 |
| th1a_ | The system by which the manager is only paid when the contractors are is good for contractors. | 17:28 |
| aelkner | sounds good to me | 17:29 |
| th1a_ | I don't think clients usually agitate for invoices. | 17:29 |
| aelkner | that's what makes you special | 17:29 |
| aelkner | well at least that's part of it | 17:29 |
| aelkner | :) | 17:30 |
| th1a_ | I think it is Mark's money that makes me special in this case. | 17:30 |
| aelkner | ignas, i'll create that account for you and email you instructions | 17:30 |
| ignas_ | ok, thanks | 17:31 |
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| ignas_ | kkubasik: hi | 17:37 |
| kkubasik | ignas_, morning :) | 17:37 |
| ignas_ | for you - maybe ;) | 17:38 |
| kkubasik | haha, where in the world is ignas_ ? | 17:38 |
| ignas_ | Vilnius, Lithuania (17:38 here) | 17:38 |
| mgedmin | 17(39 | 17:38 |
| kkubasik | ahhhh, yeah, not so much morning ;) | 17:38 |
| ignas_ | so you had some problems finding the gradebook | 17:40 |
| ignas_ | have you succeeded in solving them? | 17:40 |
| kkubasik | somewhat | 17:40 |
| kkubasik | i got it activated in trunk | 17:40 |
| kkubasik | im a long-time pythoner first time zoper | 17:41 |
| ignas_ | i see | 17:41 |
| ignas_ | :) | 17:41 |
| kkubasik | so the config stuff is a little new | 17:41 |
| ignas_ | if you have any questions - just ask | 17:42 |
| kkubasik | in a few days im gonna sit down and do a few hours on learning how its all plugged together | 17:42 |
| ignas_ | good to hear | 17:42 |
| kkubasik | so ill try to time that when you guys are up and ill be onn here asking silly questions ;) | 17:42 |
| ignas_ | :) | 17:43 |
| kkubasik | probably lots about the pt files, they are way new, component development is a very python-esq development model | 17:43 |
| kkubasik | so thats easy enough :) | 17:43 |
| th1a_ | kkubasik: Yes, your timing was bad popping in on the weekend. | 17:43 |
| kkubasik | th1a, yeah, its just learning the timezones, its always tricky | 17:44 |
| kkubasik | gotta love open souce :) | 17:44 |
| * ignas_ is online Mon-Fri 12:00-20:00 EET | 17:46 | |
| ignas_ | +-1 hour | 17:46 |
| ignas_ | aelkner: got the email, copying 3 minutes left | 17:49 |
| aelkner | cool | 17:49 |
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| ignas_ | aelkner: is it cando or jelkner-2007? | 17:50 |
| aelkner | cando | 17:50 |
| aelkner | have you used it before? | 17:51 |
| ignas_ | nope, are there any instructions on how to set up cando now? | 17:51 |
| aelkner | i don't know if they are up to date | 17:51 |
| ignas_ | i know that virtual python + buildout does not really work | 17:51 |
| ignas_ | with cando | 17:51 |
| aelkner | cando is not using it yet | 17:51 |
| aelkner | it uses it's own make file that get schooltool as an egg | 17:52 |
| aelkner | hold on and i'll give you the svn info | 17:52 |
| ignas_ | thanks | 17:53 |
| aelkner | URL: https://aelkner@svn.schooltool.org/cando/trunk | 17:53 |
| aelkner | Repository Root: https://aelkner@svn.schooltool.org/cando | 17:53 |
| aelkner | once you have gotten it started, you'll need to sign on using http://localhost:7207/++skin++NewCanDo/go.html | 17:54 |
| aelkner | that will give you a login prompt where you can enter tom_oday's login info | 17:55 |
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| ignas_ | yep | 18:05 |
| ignas_ | did that | 18:05 |
| ignas_ | no crash :/ | 18:06 |
| ignas_ | looking at http://localhost:7207/++skin++NewCanDo/sections/9/@@go.html now | 18:07 |
| aelkner | you see the evaluations tab, right? | 18:07 |
| aelkner | did you click on that? | 18:07 |
| ignas_ | ok | 18:07 |
| ignas_ | got the traceback | 18:07 |
| aelkner | fun one, eh? | 18:08 |
| ignas_ | i like these ;) | 18:10 |
| aelkner | i used a bit of code that used inspect's stack method, and i counted occurances of that routine until it got to 10 | 18:12 |
| ignas_ | hmm, the key is 'None' | 18:13 |
| ignas_ | is that normal? | 18:13 |
| aelkner | what does __dict__ look like? | 18:13 |
| aelkner | oh, do you mean the name pararmeter to __getattr__? | 18:14 |
| ignas_ | no, not __getattr__ | 18:14 |
| aelkner | isn't that where you crash? | 18:14 |
| ignas_ | __getitem__ of a requirement | 18:14 |
| aelkner | i see your point i think | 18:15 |
| aelkner | the requirement is being asked for an item with key None | 18:16 |
| ignas_ | :D | 18:16 |
| ignas_ | keys look cool | 18:16 |
| ignas_ | [u'None', u'None-2', u'None-3', u'None-4', u'None-5', u'None-6', u'None-7', u'None-8', u'None-9', u'None-10', u'None-11', u'None-12', u'None-13', u'None-14', u'None-15', u'None-16', u'None-17', u'None-18', u'None-19'] | 18:16 |
| aelkner | __dict__? | 18:17 |
| ignas_ | not there yet | 18:17 |
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| ignas_ | aelkner: are you there ? | 19:46 |
| ignas_ | aelkner: ping | 20:30 |
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| th1a_ | ignas_: http://atrios.blogspot.com/2007_12_02_archive.html#2025622585123857172 | 20:50 |
| ignas_ | th1a_: thanks | 20:58 |
| ignas_ | aelkner: the code is way messed up, apparently the offending InheritedRequirement was created | 21:02 |
| ignas_ | while looking at the treeCompetency view | 21:02 |
| ignas_ | and performing a search | 21:02 |
| ignas_ | which probably traverses the tree, and "write on reads" the competencies along the way | 21:02 |
| ignas_ | which in some way creates an InheritedRequirement without the original attribute | 21:03 |
| ignas_ | ok | 21:05 |
| ignas_ | there is an override action | 21:06 |
| ignas_ | so it was probably the cause of clicking override | 21:06 |
| ignas_ | ouch, it seems sooooo broken | 21:11 |
| ignas_ | for example - go to a section, go to a tree view | 21:12 |
| ignas_ | expand some inherited competency | 21:12 |
| ignas_ | and click on override in one of them | 21:12 |
| ignas_ | at least i am getting an error in the line "req = self.original.__class__(self.original.title, self.original)" in schooltool/requirement/requirement.py" | 21:13 |
| ignas_ | so my wild guess would be that with unusual or just unlucky hierarchy of inherited competencies | 21:14 |
| ignas_ | the __class__ can be something you don't want it to be ... | 21:14 |
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