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| ignas | hi | 16:13 |
|---|---|---|
| aelkner | hey ignas | 16:15 |
| aelkner | My sister-in-law thought you were a terrific guest, by the way, She says she enjoyed showing you the city. | 16:16 |
| ignas | i enjoyed seeing the city a lot too | 16:17 |
| aelkner | So you got to see where the big bad Bush sleeps. | 16:18 |
| ignas | :) | 16:18 |
| th1a | I'm glad ignas saw a little more of the city. | 16:25 |
| th1a | Well, Vivian's streak of consecutive days without making her father get up in the middle of the night ended last night. | 16:29 |
| th1a | Considering that streak encompassed her entire life up to this point, I can't complain. | 16:29 |
| th1a | But I'm a little woozy right now. | 16:29 |
| th1a | Hi ignas, jfroche, Lumiere, aelkner. | 16:32 |
| aelkner | hello | 16:32 |
| th1a | And always nice to see SteveA stop by. | 16:32 |
| jfroche | hello | 16:32 |
| th1a | I don't have anything specific to cover this week. | 16:32 |
| Lumiere | hi al | 16:32 |
| th1a | And since ignas was on vacation, this might be quick. | 16:32 |
| ignas | :) | 16:32 |
| th1a | ignas: How was your vacation? | 16:32 |
| ignas | quite nice | 16:33 |
| ignas | thank you | 16:33 |
| ignas | i spend the couple of days i had looking at pcardunes competency gradebook | 16:33 |
| ignas | and trying to apply the ajax patterns on lyceum gradebook | 16:33 |
| ignas | and doing some post sprint cleanups | 16:33 |
| ignas | so that lyceum branch would be using trunk again | 16:34 |
| ignas | i will try to make lyceum act as an egg the way cando does | 16:34 |
| ignas | so it would be a proper plugin | 16:34 |
| ignas | with a separate repository | 16:34 |
| ignas | that's it | 16:35 |
| th1a | ignas: Yes, those seem like good ideas. | 16:35 |
| th1a | jfroche? | 16:35 |
| jfroche | yup i have a meeting with the school this week | 16:35 |
| jfroche | to keep the contact and to speak about the production instance | 16:36 |
| jfroche | i am changing some of the gradebook views | 16:37 |
| jfroche | except that nothing new | 16:37 |
| th1a | jfroche: OK. Thanks. | 16:37 |
| jfroche | next week i have a kss sprint here in Belgium | 16:37 |
| th1a | The week of the 27th? | 16:38 |
| th1a | Or this week? | 16:38 |
| jfroche | next week 27 | 16:38 |
| jfroche | but i ll go to the school at the end of the week | 16:38 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:38 |
| jfroche | just before the september | 16:38 |
| th1a | Regular visits at this point will be necessary. | 16:38 |
| th1a | I'm feeling a little guilty because I found things to do last week other than write help files. | 16:39 |
| th1a | I became obsessed with whether or not we could just use Jabber to send SIF objects instead of the crazy SIF_HTTP infrastructure. | 16:40 |
| jfroche | about help files, do you want subtopics of subtopics also sorted based on id ? | 16:40 |
| th1a | jfroche: It would be nice. | 16:40 |
| jfroche | ok | 16:40 |
| aelkner | th1a: what's this about SIF? Are you considering a radical change? | 16:40 |
| th1a | aelkner: Well, I couldn't restrain myself... | 16:41 |
| Lumiere | lol | 16:41 |
| aelkner | I've noticed that about you | 16:41 |
| Lumiere | I think I am going to go hide in a corner | 16:41 |
| th1a | The ultimate answer is that once the Jabber client libraries catch up to some of the latest Jabber specs, | 16:41 |
| th1a | it will be really easy to do. | 16:42 |
| aelkner | do what exactly? | 16:42 |
| Lumiere | use a jabber server as a zis | 16:42 |
| Lumiere | I assume | 16:42 |
| th1a | But at this point I'd have to learn how to read Jabber specs and hack the Jabber libraries. | 16:42 |
| th1a | Lumiere: Yes, the Jabber server serves as the ZIS. | 16:43 |
| th1a | And uses the Jabber PubSub spec. | 16:43 |
| th1a | Anyhow, the idea is officially shelved for the time being. | 16:43 |
| th1a | It is promising though. | 16:43 |
| aelkner | what about the ZIS you were working on when we saw you? | 16:43 |
| th1a | aelkner: Yes, I will finish it. | 16:44 |
| aelkner | cool | 16:44 |
| th1a | I have returned to sanity. | 16:44 |
| th1a | (relatively) | 16:44 |
| th1a | Baseline sanity. | 16:44 |
| aelkner | hoffman sanity | 16:44 |
| th1a | Lumiere: News from CanDo-land? | 16:44 |
| Lumiere | aelkner: I think I know what th1a and jelkner get along so well ;) | 16:44 |
| Lumiere | th1a: I'll let aelkner handle cando this week | 16:45 |
| th1a | aelkner? | 16:45 |
| Lumiere | I've been swamped at my other job | 16:45 |
| aelkner | well, last wek i made changes to the new skin to get some of the menus to woek | 16:45 |
| aelkner | work | 16:45 |
| aelkner | I've been trying to catch up with the code base to understand how grading will work | 16:46 |
| aelkner | Nobody else has been around much | 16:46 |
| aelkner | For instance, pcardune left the gradebook in quite a state | 16:47 |
| aelkner | It seems that he got rid of dashboard code (probably your fault) | 16:47 |
| aelkner | and that code is needed for our summary page | 16:47 |
| aelkner | he's had internet acces issues | 16:48 |
| th1a | Hey, I didn't want to get rid of it entirely. | 16:48 |
| aelkner | so he hasn't gotten back to me on that | 16:48 |
| th1a | Is pcardune in the US? | 16:48 |
| aelkner | yes | 16:48 |
| Lumiere | he's in Walla Walla again | 16:48 |
| aelkner | the whole school's internet seems to be down | 16:49 |
| aelkner | anyway, i'll get him to return the code | 16:49 |
| th1a | I guess there are going to be some IT guys looking for new jobs in Walla Walla. | 16:50 |
| Lumiere | lol | 16:50 |
| aelkner | paul should have an interesting story to tell | 16:50 |
| aelkner | Lumiere: are you going to see Dave today? | 16:50 |
| th1a | OK... anything else? | 16:51 |
| Lumiere | no | 16:51 |
| Lumiere | but I am going to call him | 16:51 |
| Lumiere | he's on semi-vacation | 16:51 |
| th1a | A slow August meeting... | 16:51 |
| Lumiere | I have to setup a st-buildout | 16:51 |
| Lumiere | or something | 16:51 |
| Lumiere | so he can keep working | 16:52 |
| aelkner | I have questions about the UI. I sent him a note, but I don't know how quickly he will get back to me | 16:52 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 16:53 | |
| aelkner | For instance, do you happen to know which sections of the dashboard need to go in the summary page? | 16:53 |
| th1a | Have a good week folks. | 16:53 |
| aelkner | ok, thanks | 16:53 |
| th1a | We'll let these guys discuss CanDo now... | 16:53 |
| Lumiere | k | 16:53 |
| Lumiere | aelkner: my view is somewhat different to his | 16:54 |
| Lumiere | I would like to see summary show anything that needs action | 16:54 |
| Lumiere | and give access to it in no more then 2 clicks | 16:54 |
| aelkner | makes sense | 16:54 |
| Lumiere | I only say 2 | 16:55 |
| Lumiere | because I give you an option to make a drop down if required :) | 16:55 |
| aelkner | so what needs action? could you give me specifics? | 16:56 |
| Lumiere | do I have compentencies to grade (yes always... would be a safe answer) | 16:57 |
| Lumiere | do I have journals waiting for me | 16:57 |
| aelkner | journal notification, right? | 16:57 |
| Lumiere | yea | 16:57 |
| aelkner | where's eldar with that? have you heard from him lately. i haven't | 16:57 |
| aelkner | is he working on the trunk cause i haven't seen any commits | 16:58 |
| Lumiere | he's in a branch | 16:58 |
| aelkner | it looks like it's called queuing | 17:00 |
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| Lumiere | yes | 17:04 |
| aelkner | i'm looking at it now. i hope to hear from him eventually. | 17:04 |
| Lumiere | yea | 17:04 |
| Lumiere | I don't expect to see anyone till like 10:30 | 17:05 |
| aelkner | do I have compentencies to grade: could you explain what you mean by that? | 17:05 |
| Lumiere | aelkner: basically... any section you are in | 17:05 |
| Lumiere | should be listed | 17:05 |
| Lumiere | with easy access to the basic things you would do in that section | 17:06 |
| aelkner | could you list those? | 17:06 |
| Lumiere | grading comps is like #1 thing someone would be thinking of doing in cando | 17:06 |
| Lumiere | they shouldn't have to drill down 5-7 layers | 17:06 |
| Lumiere | to find that | 17:06 |
| aelkner | anything else? | 17:07 |
| Lumiere | aelkner: forum (not section journal probably), comps, skill drivers coming due | 17:07 |
| aelkner | i thought the forum WAS the section journal | 17:07 |
| Lumiere | nope | 17:08 |
| Lumiere | there are supposedly 2 remaining talk areas | 17:08 |
| Lumiere | forum (all students + all instructors) | 17:08 |
| Lumiere | and section journals (individual student + all instructors) | 17:08 |
| aelkner | section journals are obviously tied to sections | 17:09 |
| aelkner | what are forums toed to? | 17:09 |
| Lumiere | yes | 17:09 |
| Lumiere | forums are tied to section as well | 17:10 |
| aelkner | i'll have to look at the code | 17:10 |
| aelkner | it's not clear to me why we have a sctions tab if the summary page is supposed to do everything you said with sections | 17:11 |
| Lumiere | summary shouldn't give access to more then the 2-3 things you do most often | 17:13 |
| Lumiere | in a section | 17:13 |
| Lumiere | the point isn't to replace the section tab | 17:14 |
| Lumiere | it's to bypass the excess clicking when you don't need it | 17:14 |
| aelkner | can you give me an example of the clicking one might do when using the sections tab? | 17:14 |
| Lumiere | click sections tab, search for section (maybe), click on section name, choose actions menu, choose what to do | 17:16 |
| aelkner | ok, we have that working | 17:17 |
| Lumiere | I know | 17:18 |
| Lumiere | what I am saying is the summary should allow bypassing of some of that | 17:18 |
| aelkner | i got that | 17:19 |
| aelkner | i was affirming what you said | 17:19 |
| Lumiere | k | 17:19 |
| aelkner | so for sure we don't want the blog to come up like it does now | 17:19 |
| aelkner | on the summary page | 17:19 |
| aelkner | blogs are dead, right? | 17:20 |
| Lumiere | if not | 17:21 |
| Lumiere | I want to kill them | 17:21 |
| aelkner | well, the new basicperson got rid of the link, so all we have to do is get rid of it from the summary page | 17:22 |
| aelkner | then it will be officially dead | 17:22 |
| Lumiere | doooo iiiit :) | 17:22 |
| Lumiere | please think of the sound of a chain saw | 17:22 |
| Lumiere | while you chop it out | 17:22 |
| aelkner | have you been testing the new skin at all? do we have a bug list? | 17:26 |
| Lumiere | I have not | 17:26 |
| Lumiere | I've been utterly swamped at my other job | 17:26 |
| Lumiere | welsh has been | 17:27 |
| Lumiere | but has not said anything | 17:27 |
| aelkner | has he entered anything in trac? | 17:27 |
| Lumiere | no | 17:27 |
| Lumiere | but he'll enter into LP | 17:27 |
| Lumiere | LP sends me email on bug creation | 17:27 |
| aelkner | but you haven't got any emails meaning he hasn't created any bug reports | 17:28 |
| Lumiere | yes | 17:28 |
| aelkner | And the existing bugs are probably not all relevant anymore now that we changed the skin | 17:29 |
| Lumiere | most are | 17:30 |
| jfroche | ignas: i have a problem, looks like i have broken ftests with my last ci, i have read the log but i don't see where is the problem | 17:30 |
| Lumiere | because they seem to be permission related | 17:30 |
| jfroche | ignas: seems that there is no skin for devmode ? | 17:32 |
| jfroche | uhm this is since r7144 | 17:33 |
| th1a | jfroche: yes, it is annoying. | 17:36 |
| jfroche | yep seems to be an old problem | 17:37 |
| Lumiere | aelkner: can you hop on google talk? | 17:38 |
| Lumiere | dwelsh and pcardune are online | 17:38 |
| Lumiere | but neither can access irc | 17:38 |
| aelkner | Lumiere: hopw do i hop on goggle talk? | 17:39 |
| aelkner | i know about gmail chat | 17:39 |
| aelkner | but that's it | 17:39 |
| Lumiere | gmail chat | 17:40 |
| aelkner | Lumiere: send me a gmail chat so I can have you in my list | 17:45 |
| Lumiere | aelkner@gmail? | 17:45 |
| aelkner | .com, yes | 17:45 |
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| aelkner | Lumiere: are people meeting in google land in a more than one on one way? | 17:46 |
| Lumiere | we were trying | 17:46 |
| Lumiere | looks like one on one only | 17:51 |
| aelkner | Lumiere: send me a gmail chat please? | 17:53 |
| Lumiere | I did | 17:54 |
| Lumiere | about 10 minutes ago | 17:55 |
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| aelkner | Lumiere: i got nothing from you. I'm at aelkner@gmail.com | 18:12 |
| Lumiere | aelkner: I dunno then | 18:46 |
| aelkner | What's your gmail address? | 18:47 |
| Lumiere | jason.straw | 18:47 |
| aelkner | Lumiere: are you getting my chat messages? | 18:59 |
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| Lumiere | hi pcardune, jelkner | 19:55 |
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| jelkner | Lumiere: hi | 20:04 |
| jelkner | pcardune is working with my brother | 20:04 |
| jelkner | i'm waiting to talk to them until they finish... | 20:04 |
| Lumiere | k | 20:05 |
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| aelkner | jelkner: i'm off the phone with paul if want to call me | 21:40 |
| aelkner | 267-886-9285 | 21:40 |
| jelkner | in a moment | 21:44 |
| jelkner | i'm chatting with pranava about doctest quiz | 21:45 |
| jelkner | pcardune: u still here? | 21:47 |
| pcardune | jelkner: yes | 21:48 |
| jelkner | i am talking here with Pranava Swaroop (sudinf) | 21:48 |
| jelkner | he is very interested in doctest quiz | 21:48 |
| jelkner | and wants to work on it | 21:48 |
| pcardune | yes, he mentioned as much to me earlier | 21:50 |
| sudinf | true | 21:50 |
| jelkner | ok, well, he is serious | 21:50 |
| jelkner | and i (of course) *really* want to help him get started! | 21:50 |
| jelkner | so, what would you recommend he do? | 21:50 |
| jelkner | he has a *strong* CS background | 21:51 |
| jelkner | but no zope 3 experience | 21:51 |
| pcardune | well there are a number of different routes | 21:51 |
| pcardune | let me check on something real quick | 21:51 |
| pcardune | The first thing he should do is check out the code, which can be found at https://svn.schooltool.org/trac/cando/browser/branches/doctest-quiz | 21:52 |
| pcardune | that is the trac source browser page | 21:52 |
| sudinf | ok | 21:53 |
| pcardune | sudinf: you can check out this code by make a small modification to the instructons on cando.schooltool.org under installation (namely, change the /trunk part of the url to /branches/doctest-quiz) | 21:53 |
| pcardune | the second step would be working on the code itself for which you could do a number of things | 21:54 |
| pcardune | the easiest is probably to just give you commit access to our repository and to have you work in that branch | 21:55 |
| pcardune | alternatively if you want to manage the code yourself, or make something that is slightly different or that you want to be separate from schooltool itself (more of a zope application), then you would probably want to start a separate product in launchpad and use bzr | 21:56 |
| pcardune | what more precisely are you planning on doing with doctest-quiz? | 21:56 |
| sudinf | well my aim is to build an online judge that I had talked about before | 21:57 |
| sudinf | first step is I need to completely understand what is DOCTESTQUIZ | 21:57 |
| jelkner | just the kind of thing i had hoped doctest quiz would become | 21:57 |
| pcardune | sudinf: ok, well the first step is pretty easy... we don't need to give you commit access and all the code is available | 21:58 |
| sudinf | and then I need to understand zope 3 | 21:58 |
| pcardune | Eldar Omuraliev is the best person to contact about code questions | 21:58 |
| sudinf | ok | 21:58 |
| jelkner | but he will be unreachable for a few weeks | 21:58 |
| jelkner | i can answer questions about the intent of it, since i was the customer | 21:59 |
| sudinf | ok | 21:59 |
| jelkner | i wanted a way to automate evaluations of student work | 21:59 |
| pcardune | sudinf: after you have learned more about doctestquiz, I guess it would be up to you to decide how you want your application to work (schooltool integration or not, zope or not, etc.) and we can talk about other things then | 21:59 |
| jelkner | much like you are describing doing | 21:59 |
| jelkner | two summers ago | 21:59 |
| jelkner | stephan richter told us we could use zope's secure python to do what i wanted | 22:00 |
| jelkner | and eldar began working on it | 22:00 |
| jelkner | at present, it permits you to create quiz items expressed as doctests | 22:00 |
| jelkner | and automatically evaluates them | 22:00 |
| jelkner | like i explained in our chat a few minutes ago, more pressing priorities | 22:01 |
| sudinf | ok | 22:01 |
| jelkner | got in the way of working on it this summer | 22:01 |
| jelkner | but it is still very much on my radar | 22:01 |
| jelkner | i planned to revive it as soon as i could | 22:02 |
| sudinf | I have a problem now, Itried to checkout the svn and I got this error message"svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/trac/cando/browser/branches/doctest-quiz' " | 22:02 |
| jelkner | i basically want to created online curriculum with automatic evaluations | 22:02 |
| pcardune | sudinf: the url i gave you is only for web browsers :) | 22:02 |
| sudinf | ah! | 22:02 |
| pcardune | sudinf: the url for doing checkouts is available listed in cando.schooltool.org | 22:03 |
| sudinf | jelkner: what do you mean by online curriculum? | 22:03 |
| jelkner | well, http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/ | 22:04 |
| jelkner | i want quizzes at the end of each chapter | 22:04 |
| jelkner | that can be completed and evaluated through the web | 22:04 |
| pcardune | I'm afraid I have to depart for lunch | 22:04 |
| jelkner | pcardune: thanks, paul! | 22:05 |
| pcardune | But i'll be back in about 45 minutes if you have more questions | 22:05 |
| pcardune | bye bye | 22:05 |
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| sudinf | bye! | 22:05 |
| jelkner | sudinf: do you have everything you need to get started? | 22:05 |
| sudinf | I think yes | 22:06 |
| jelkner | zope 3 has a *steep* learning curve | 22:06 |
| jelkner | (but no more than the linux kernel, i'm sure ;-) | 22:06 |
| jelkner | we spend about a year training students to be able to work on the project | 22:07 |
| jelkner | the super bright ones can do it in about half that time | 22:07 |
| jelkner | but it ain't easy | 22:07 |
| jelkner | (just to warn you) | 22:07 |
| sudinf | let me see if I can be in those ones ;) | 22:07 |
| jelkner | lol | 22:08 |
| jelkner | ok, i need to run | 22:08 |
| jelkner | please email me again if you need anything | 22:08 |
| sudinf | I was just looking at the http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy | 22:08 |
| jelkner | i'll be doing a lot of work on that this school year | 22:08 |
| sudinf | what you meant over here is that at the end of each chapter you are going to provide questions | 22:09 |
| jelkner | yes | 22:09 |
| sudinf | and then the solitions will be provided by the students | 22:09 |
| jelkner | exactly | 22:09 |
| jelkner | and automatically evaluated | 22:09 |
| sudinf | which will be accepted and shown to you only if they are correct | 22:09 |
| jelkner | yup | 22:09 |
| sudinf | hmm.... | 22:10 |
| sudinf | the present tool that we have - doctestquiz does what? | 22:10 |
| jelkner | it does that | 22:10 |
| jelkner | students are presented with a question in the form of a doctest | 22:10 |
| sudinf | I mean is it working | 22:11 |
| jelkner | they have an input box into which they type a solution | 22:11 |
| jelkner | and then they get feedback as to whether or not their solutions passed | 22:11 |
| jelkner | yes, it does that already | 22:11 |
| sudinf | so what are the additins that are needed to be done? | 22:11 |
| jelkner | well, the additions i need are more related to cando | 22:12 |
| sudinf | s/additins/additions | 22:12 |
| jelkner | i want to have a library of doctest quiz items related to particular competencies (looping, data types, etc) | 22:13 |
| jelkner | i want students to be able to request a "quiz" whenever they wish | 22:13 |
| sudinf | one big thing that I am not getting is where does this cando pop up from, what exactly is cando | 22:13 |
| jelkner | cando is a competency tracking tool | 22:14 |
| jelkner | we are developing it for the state of virginia (where i teach) | 22:14 |
| jelkner | to deliver competency based education | 22:14 |
| sudinf | ah! good afternoon sir!! | 22:14 |
| jelkner | see: http://cando.schooltool.org | 22:15 |
| aelkner | jelkner, don't call me just yet | 22:15 |
| jelkner | aelkner: when? | 22:15 |
| aelkner | on the phone | 22:15 |
| aelkner | after that | 22:15 |
| jelkner | i have class here in 45 minutes | 22:15 |
| jelkner | ok, let me know | 22:16 |
| aelkner | it wont be more then 10 mins | 22:16 |
| sudinf | well I am actually working on a similar kind of system | 22:16 |
| sudinf | it is known as computer based assignment submission system | 22:16 |
| sudinf | CBASS in short | 22:16 |
| sudinf | but it doesen't have a doctestquiz tool | 22:17 |
| jelkner | perhaps you will find other things to your liking in schooltool/cando? | 22:17 |
| sudinf | when are you free this week | 22:18 |
| jelkner | nothing would make us happier than to have our project take on one of the missing components to become a successful free software project | 22:18 |
| jelkner | a community of users other than us | 22:18 |
| sudinf | true | 22:18 |
| jelkner | ok, i need to go | 22:19 |
| sudinf | jelkner: I will do one thing I will go through all the things that you have mentioned | 22:19 |
| jelkner | but i look forward to hearing from you how things go | 22:19 |
| sudinf | I 'll mail you the things as I get it and will ask you for your comments on it | 22:19 |
| jelkner | thanks | 22:19 |
| aelkner | jelkner, off in 2 mins | 22:19 |
| jelkner | great | 22:19 |
| sudinf | ok | 22:20 |
| * jelkner signs off to call his brother... | 22:20 | |
| sudinf | so I 'll take leave | 22:20 |
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