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| pcardune | Lumiere: ayt? | 00:43 |
|---|---|---|
| pcardune | dwelsh: ayt? | 00:43 |
| pcardune | I think I just found a *really* bad security hole in CanDo | 00:43 |
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| th1a | pcardune: In CanDo or SchoolTool? | 04:07 |
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| pcardune | th1a: in CanDo | 07:54 |
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| jinty | Lumiere, I think I killed your buildslave, mind checking what it's doing? | 11:19 |
| Aim_ | bitten? | 11:19 |
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| jfroche | rosetta still doesn't have any search feature ? | 13:38 |
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| jfroche_ | ignas: hello ! q: new rosetta still don't have search functionality ? | 15:10 |
| ignas | don't think so, you can ask about it in #launchpad though to be suere | 15:11 |
| jfroche_ | ok tkx | 15:12 |
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| pcardune | good morning all, dwelsh | 16:29 |
| dwelsh | good morning all | 16:33 |
| ignas | pcardune: hi | 16:33 |
| pcardune | hi ignas | 16:34 |
| ignas | pcardune: how long will you be online? | 16:34 |
| pcardune | hours and hours? | 16:34 |
| ignas | i will be busy for 30-40 minutes now | 16:34 |
| ignas | but it seems that I need some explaining of Zope security policy to do ;) | 16:34 |
| pcardune | well maybe yes | 16:34 |
| pcardune | although I think I'm going to give up and go with the different interfaces + classes | 16:35 |
| ignas | still - your plan is wrong | 16:35 |
| ignas | or at least misinformed | 16:35 |
| ignas | probably | 16:35 |
| pcardune | ok, well in that case I'd still appreciate an explanation | 16:35 |
| pcardune | I am continuously misinformed about security related things | 16:35 |
| pcardune | ignas: I'm free in 2.5 hours | 16:36 |
| pcardune | (after some meetings) | 16:36 |
| ignas | ok, sounds good | 16:36 |
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| wdickers | good morning | 16:43 |
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| wdickers | mlinnell: could you give me your email? I don't have it | 16:46 |
| mlinnell | yeah, one sec | 16:46 |
| mlinnell | k sent | 16:47 |
| wdickers | thanks | 16:47 |
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| jinty | Lumiere, pcardune: the buildbot is up, will run on commits to the cando repo and send failures to the cando-checkins mailing list | 16:53 |
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| pcardune | jinty: thanks a bunch | 16:54 |
| jinty | it does the equivalent of svn up; make build; make test; make ftest | 16:54 |
| jinty | of course it's failing right now | 16:54 |
| jinty | have fun :) | 16:54 |
| pcardune | not only is it failing, but it is failing with a strange error in compiling zope | 16:55 |
| pcardune | and that frightens me | 16:55 |
| dwelsh | lumiere: good morning | 16:56 |
| dwelsh | wdickers: you ready? | 16:57 |
| th1a | I need to grab my coffee. | 16:57 |
| wdickers | I'm not exactly sure what I should do, I am having a persistence problem with the ZODB. I can't modify the list of person objects -_- | 16:59 |
| wdickers | However, the XML messages are being sent/received/parsed perfectly | 16:59 |
| ignas | list or Persistent list | 16:59 |
| ignas | or PersonContainer? | 16:59 |
| dwelsh | th1a: get a LOT of coffee! | 17:00 |
| th1a | dwelsh: Ready. | 17:01 |
| th1a | wdickers: jinty's advice didn't help? | 17:02 |
| wdickers | no, that was a problem with the queue, which is a dictionary that I stuck into the ZODB. However, now when I try to add/delete a person from the personContainer, the changes don't stick either | 17:03 |
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| ignas | interesting, care to paste the code? | 17:04 |
| pcardune | hi tdoggette | 17:04 |
| ignas | lisppaste5: url | 17:04 |
| lisppaste5 | To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/schooltool and enter your paste. | 17:04 |
| pcardune | to lisppaste5 | 17:04 |
| tdoggette | Hello. | 17:04 |
| tdoggette | Sorry I'm late, exams. | 17:05 |
| pcardune | don't worry, we haven't started yet | 17:05 |
| tdoggette | Ok, good. | 17:05 |
| wdickers | sure. Just on sec though, I think I may have found the problem | 17:05 |
| th1a | wdickers: Did using a persistent dictionary work for the queue problem? | 17:05 |
| wdickers | For now i'm ignoring that error, I'm just using a dbm file | 17:06 |
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| wdickers | pasting code now | 17:09 |
| lisppaste5 | wdickers pasted "stAgent Database" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/43046 | 17:10 |
| wdickers | I think the problem is that I caste the container into a dict, and modifying that just changes the dictionary, not the object | 17:11 |
| th1a | Is there some reason you did that? | 17:13 |
| wdickers | I could not find a way to add/remove people from it. | 17:13 |
| pcardune | it uses the same api as a dictionary | 17:13 |
| pcardune | as in like persons['joe'] = Person(u"Joe") | 17:14 |
| pcardune | del persons['joe | 17:14 |
| pcardune | '] | 17:14 |
| wdickers | ahh, okay | 17:14 |
| wdickers | retesting now | 17:15 |
| th1a | wdickers: Had you tried that or just assumed it was more complicated? | 17:15 |
| wdickers | I assumed it was more complicated. I was looking for an 'add' method for some reason | 17:16 |
| Lumiere | hi all | 17:16 |
| th1a | Hi Lumiere. | 17:16 |
| th1a | Are some of us in the same physical location? | 17:19 |
| Lumiere | dwelsh and I are now | 17:19 |
| pcardune | but that's about it :) | 17:19 |
| tdoggette | Where are you, wdickers? | 17:19 |
| wdickers | I'm at my house | 17:19 |
| ignas | wdickers: are you including schooltools site.zcml in your agent implementation | 17:19 |
| ignas | aren't you? | 17:20 |
| th1a | You mean to find the database? | 17:20 |
| wdickers | I'm not sure what you mean, so probably not. Could you explain? | 17:20 |
| ignas | wdickers: you see, when you del app['persons']['some-key'] | 17:20 |
| ignas | an IObjectRemoved event is fired | 17:21 |
| ignas | but if your agent is not including schooltools site.zcml | 17:21 |
| ignas | there will be no subscribers for that event | 17:21 |
| ignas | so the integrity of the application will be compromised | 17:21 |
| th1a | This is good to know. | 17:21 |
| th1a | What does "including schooltool's site.zcml" entail? | 17:22 |
| tdoggette | Note to self: avoid compromisation of application integrity. | 17:22 |
| ignas | no idea, really, haven't tried doing that, i think pcardune has worked more with Zope adapter registry from a non Zope3 application | 17:22 |
| lisppaste5 | wdickers pasted "stAgent Add" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/43048 | 17:23 |
| th1a | pcardune: Do you have any insight into this? | 17:24 |
| * pcardune is talking to dwelsh | 17:24 | |
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| Lumiere | wdickers: try and use the annotate this paste button ;) | 17:24 |
| pcardune | umm, I don't have much insights unfortunately | 17:25 |
| wdickers | Aha, that is more efficient, thanks Lumiere | 17:25 |
| pcardune | at least not with integrating non zope3 application with existing zope 3 application through the adapter registry | 17:25 |
| pcardune | although, stagent shouldn't be a non-zope3 app no? | 17:26 |
| tdoggette | Why would it need to use zope? | 17:26 |
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| alga | that's exactly what the RESTive interface was meant for | 17:27 |
| wdickers | Well I believe the Queue may end up being a zope object and it DOES use the ZODB | 17:27 |
| alga | I suggest you resurrect REST and use it to access and manipulate ST data | 17:27 |
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| pcardune | oh i suppose it wouldn't necessarily need to use zope, but is sure would make it easier | 17:27 |
| dwelsh | tha1: are you thinking we should plan on using TinyZIS? | 17:28 |
| dwelsh | Or will your enterprise effort be baked by the end of summer? | 17:28 |
| th1a | alga may have a point... REST methods should still work for adding and deleting persons. | 17:28 |
| dwelsh | or is there something else we should use | 17:28 |
| dwelsh | ? | 17:28 |
| Lumiere | TinyZIS will work fine for the size group we're planning | 17:28 |
| alga | and firing all the event handlers! | 17:28 |
| th1a | dwelsh: You should probably assume you're using TinyZIS. | 17:28 |
| dwelsh | (he says proudly:)) | 17:29 |
| dwelsh | I love new fathers! | 17:29 |
| th1a | alga: btw, are you expecting baby #2? | 17:29 |
| alga | th1a: true, true | 17:29 |
| alga | in late July | 17:29 |
| th1a | alga: Congratulations. | 17:29 |
| th1a | ! | 17:30 |
| alga | thank you! | 17:30 |
| ignas | dwelsh: so yes, indeed, it would make more sense to add a schooltool REST view that publishes the queue | 17:30 |
| th1a | Anyhow... | 17:30 |
| alga | we're also having a house constructed: http://nariai.akl.lt/alga/photos/Namas | 17:30 |
| ignas | dwelsh: and use REST views to manipulate schooltool objects | 17:30 |
| ignas | which would make your agent Zope3 independent | 17:30 |
| ignas | you would not have to use ZEO even | 17:30 |
| pcardune | +1 | 17:31 |
| alga | writing RESTive views is easy :-) | 17:31 |
| alga | and I guess you'll need to | 17:31 |
| wdickers | well I'm up for anything that makes communicating with the ZODB easy :) | 17:32 |
| th1a | At least there are examples. | 17:32 |
| tdoggette | What is REST, by the way? | 17:32 |
| alga | tdoggette: a web-service architectural style | 17:32 |
| alga | it stands for REpresentational State Transerfer | 17:32 |
| th1a | Basically, you add an object by sending a little XML message to the right URL in SchoolTool. | 17:33 |
| alga | the idea is to use the standard HTTP methods as "verbs": | 17:33 |
| alga | GET, PUT, POST, DELETE | 17:33 |
| th1a | Add or whatever else you want to do. | 17:33 |
| alga | so, the method is a "verb" and the URI is a "noun", or object | 17:34 |
| alga | delete a person: DELETE /persons/person0001 | 17:34 |
| ignas | there is a restclient.py that can be used as an example/library for comunicating with schooltool through REST | 17:34 |
| ignas | src/schooltool/restclient/... | 17:35 |
| alga | more about REST: http://roy.gbiv.com/pubs/dissertation/rest_arch_style.htm | 17:35 |
| th1a | SchoolTool was originally designed to have a desktop client (no web interface) that did everything with REST. | 17:35 |
| alga | It's a doctoral thesis | 17:35 |
| tdoggette | alga: Thanks! I'll read up. | 17:35 |
| th1a | When I took over I said we needed to have a web interface, and we tried to keep both going for a while, but it made development even slower. | 17:36 |
| wdickers | do you know where restclient.py is? | 17:36 |
| th1a | And we didn't know what the use case for REST was anymore. | 17:36 |
| ignas | src/schooltool/restclient/restclient.py | 17:36 |
| wdickers | thanksw | 17:36 |
| wdickers | *thanks | 17:36 |
| alga | SIS integrations is EXACTLY the use-case for REST! | 17:36 |
| eldar | isn't rest a little bit out of date though | 17:36 |
| ignas | it is | 17:37 |
| ignas | so when you will encounter problems with it | 17:37 |
| ignas | you will have to fix it | 17:37 |
| ignas | but for adding/removing persons it might work | 17:37 |
| alga | depends on what you want to do with it | 17:37 |
| ignas | hmm, okay maybe you will have to do something about demographics and stuff | 17:37 |
| alga | I'm sure deleting persons will work out of the box :-) | 17:38 |
| ignas | so for removing persons it will surely work | 17:38 |
| ignas | for adding - it depends | 17:38 |
| alga | adding -- yes | 17:38 |
| alga | but demographics, etc -- no so much :) | 17:38 |
| wdickers | well I think before I jump into rest, we should find out how to directly add python objects to the ZODB. That's the way stAgent is currently set up | 17:39 |
| ignas | wdickers: remove the "dict" part | 17:40 |
| ignas | and it should just work | 17:40 |
| ignas | hmm, or maybe not | 17:40 |
| th1a | The fact of the matter is that getting REST view to work would be a fair amount of work in itself. | 17:40 |
| ignas | as you don't know *which* person object to create | 17:40 |
| wdickers | I did, but the databse still isn't being refreshed | 17:40 |
| ignas | th1a: the fact is that getting stAgent to work with schooltool database will take more work | 17:40 |
| wdickers | check out my recent lisp post :P | 17:40 |
| th1a | ignas: I wish I'd known that six months ago :-( | 17:41 |
| pcardune | th1a: better 6 months than 7 or 8 :) | 17:41 |
| ignas | hmm | 17:43 |
| ignas | th1a: ok | 17:43 |
| ignas | how important is it to have stAgent independent from Zope3/SchoolTool ? | 17:43 |
| ignas | because though it would not be as clean, it is possible to have stAgent as a plugin for schooltool | 17:44 |
| ignas | rather than as a separate application | 17:44 |
| ignas | though it will have to depend on schooltool, and will be something like a small schooltool server without the server/UI part | 17:44 |
| th1a | stAgent has to send out HTTP requests, so it has to be able to do that without blocking the rest of the server. | 17:44 |
| pcardune | if anyone wants to look at the code, it is here: http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~stagent-developers/stagent/stagent-dev/files | 17:44 |
| ignas | the part in question is how it should communicate with schooltool | 17:45 |
| th1a | The ONLY reason to keep it separate is to make it easier. | 17:45 |
| pcardune | th1a: can't it do that by just running it's own server on another thread? | 17:45 |
| th1a | There are many ways to do it, to be sure. | 17:45 |
| ignas | pcardune: if you will add the part that can run one more thread in the schooltool process ... | 17:45 |
| th1a | I just THOUGHT the easiest was using ZEO. | 17:45 |
| ignas | it might be, without spiking it's impossible to know | 17:46 |
| th1a | Apparently ZEO was harder than I thought, so we're wide open to any options. | 17:46 |
| ignas | you should try looking at REST, and looking at attaching of one more thread to schooltool, and into the loading of site.zcml | 17:46 |
| ignas | but you will have to prototype these yourself i am afraid | 17:47 |
| ignas | REST is the simplest way from the complexity standpoint | 17:47 |
| ignas | as in - it's simple to do | 17:47 |
| pcardune | I'm glad this is the topic of our first sprint | 17:47 |
| ignas | but will require more of that work | 17:47 |
| ignas | adding a thread to schooltool, is something i have no idea how to do at the moment | 17:48 |
| th1a | We also need to think about how to do this given the available developers. | 17:48 |
| ignas | and integrating CA in your agent | 17:48 |
| ignas | is workable too | 17:48 |
| th1a | It seems like if pcardune can figure out the thread issue, then the rest of the development would be a lot easier for the other interns. | 17:48 |
| ignas | maybe | 17:49 |
| pcardune | th1a: or the site.zcml issue as well | 17:49 |
| pcardune | I'm sure it is possible to load site.zcml in python | 17:49 |
| ignas | i personally would go for site.zcml | 17:49 |
| pcardune | well, obviously it is possible | 17:49 |
| ignas | it is possible, schooltool does it ;) | 17:49 |
| ignas | zope3 does it too | 17:49 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:49 |
| pcardune | I think that would just require some hunting and pecking and maybe a few zope3-dev list serv emails | 17:50 |
| ignas | so you add schooltool/stagent for debug views and subscribers and add stagent.py in parallel with schooltool-server.py | 17:50 |
| ignas | on the other hand - REST is the most robust, and clean way to implement stagent | 17:51 |
| tdoggette | But seeing as stAgent is a necessary component of SchoolTool anyway, why not integrate it? | 17:52 |
| tdoggette | That is, wouldn't that be the Right Way (TM) to do it? | 17:53 |
| ignas | tdoggette: necessary? | 17:54 |
| ignas | for whom? | 17:54 |
| th1a | It isn't necessary for everyone. | 17:54 |
| ignas | integrating it makes it less robust as now you have 2 applications in the same process | 17:54 |
| wdickers | well I think he means it is a much desired feature for schooltool, so it should be shipped out with it | 17:55 |
| tdoggette | Yeah, what he said. | 17:55 |
| wdickers | but ignas is right, stagent 'wakes up | 17:55 |
| wdickers | ' every so often by itself | 17:55 |
| alga | SIS integration is kind of irrelevant outside USA, isn't it? | 17:56 |
| wdickers | so it's really independent, except for subscribing to modification events | 17:56 |
| ignas | ZIS not SIS | 17:56 |
| alga | sorry, ZIS | 17:56 |
| ignas | so there are 2 parts of stAgent | 17:56 |
| th1a | The agent's behavior overall is pretty different than a server's behavior. | 17:56 |
| ignas | the one with subscribers and the queue | 17:56 |
| ignas | and another one that handles the talking ZIS and schooltool | 17:57 |
| th1a | Well, there's a base class that handles talking to the ZIS, and stAgent talks to SchoolTool. | 17:57 |
| wdickers | right, schooltool doesn't 'know' about that second part | 17:57 |
| wdickers | in the bzr branch the part that goes into schooltool is StAgentPackage | 17:58 |
| th1a | Oh, right. | 17:58 |
| th1a | And there's that part. | 17:58 |
| wdickers | That's the thing that subscribes to modification events to add them to the queue | 17:59 |
| th1a | I guess the big question at this point is whether we can get some pcardune time on this problem. | 18:00 |
| th1a | Because I think we'll need it to get over this hump. | 18:00 |
| tdoggette | Isn't he coming to the sprint next week? | 18:00 |
| tdoggette | As I understand it, stAgagent is the main focus. | 18:01 |
| tdoggette | Or one of them, at least. | 18:01 |
| wdickers | I won't be physically here, but I should be able to meet up online | 18:02 |
| alga | haha, funny :) | 18:03 |
| alga | I assume you're the one getting paid for it, right? :) | 18:03 |
| wdickers | well up to the point I leave, yup | 18:04 |
| th1a | pcardune: ? | 18:05 |
| pcardune | apparently not at the moment | 18:06 |
| pcardune | :) | 18:06 |
| pcardune | Talk to dwelsh about my time | 18:06 |
| th1a | So the fact of the matter is, we're completely stuck. | 18:06 |
| wdickers | So there's no easy way to hack into the ZODB and modify a container object? | 18:07 |
| alga | it's easy, but it's messy | 18:07 |
| ignas | wdickers: i hadn't looked at your code yet | 18:07 |
| pcardune | messy and easy don't sound like they could ever go together | 18:08 |
| alga | at the same time? you'd need to run ZEO to get both apps use the same DB | 18:08 |
| alga | but it's doable | 18:08 |
| th1a | Easy until it breaks. | 18:08 |
| wdickers | Aren't we already using ZEO? | 18:08 |
| alga | ah, ok | 18:09 |
| th1a | The point is that if there is a subscriber that should automatically do something, say, when you add a person, that event won't be fired the way things are currently set up. | 18:09 |
| Lumiere | ZIS/SIF functionality is cando related and would be an appropriate use of pcardune time ;) | 18:09 |
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| pcardune | I'm sure other people have come up with solutions to this problem | 18:09 |
| wdickers | th1a: no, the event is fired, and the message is send, but modifying the databse at the other end fails | 18:10 |
| pcardune | wdickers: but we are theorizing the the modification fails because certain *other* events aren't caught | 18:10 |
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| th1a | I think ignas's points are about problems we have not gotten to yet. | 18:11 |
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| ignas | th1a: yes, the ones you will get to as soon as you'll manage to delete the person ;) | 18:11 |
| ignas | now - can you give me the repo url so i could set up | 18:11 |
| wdickers | ahh, I see | 18:12 |
| ignas | the stagent thingie myself | 18:12 |
| ignas | and look at the running code | 18:12 |
| ignas | pcardune: as for security | 18:12 |
| ignas | there are 2 levels/steps for security declarations | 18:12 |
| pcardune | http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~stagent-developers/stagent/stagent-dev | 18:12 |
| ignas | pcardune: that's a bzr repo? | 18:12 |
| pcardune | yes? | 18:12 |
| wdickers | yes | 18:12 |
| pcardune | oh wait, no | 18:13 |
| pcardune | remove the browse part | 18:13 |
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| ignas | pcardune: step 1 is the class declaration that binds attributes/interfaces to permissions | 18:13 |
| wdickers | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~stagent-developers/stagent/stagent-dev | 18:13 |
| ignas | so if you want schooltool.edit to control access to some attribute you do that | 18:13 |
| ignas | in the <class> declaration in zcml | 18:14 |
| ignas | the other part is the crowd selection for the object/permission pair | 18:14 |
| ignas | so zope takes an object (Person for example) | 18:14 |
| ignas | tries to access his title | 18:14 |
| ignas | looks at class declaration and sees "title is controled by schooltool.view" | 18:14 |
| ignas | then it goes to securitypolicy | 18:15 |
| ignas | and asks - does this principal (currently logged in guy) | 18:15 |
| ignas | have "schooltool.view" permission on this "Person" object | 18:15 |
| dwelsh | wdickers: will/can you be at all/part of the upcoming Arlnigton sprint??? | 18:15 |
| ignas | now our brand new shiny security policy looks at all the <allow> directives | 18:15 |
| dwelsh | we obviously have some more work to do on this | 18:15 |
| wdickers | dwelsh: I plan to be online that entire day | 18:15 |
| pcardune | ignas: yes, i understand that, as a quick fix i just created a new permission | 18:16 |
| dwelsh | thurs, fri, sat and sunday | 18:16 |
| dwelsh | what parts of which days are you around for? | 18:16 |
| ignas | my point is - wanting to add attributes to <crowd> is not really possible | 18:16 |
| ignas | as interfaces in allow | 18:16 |
| *** AVN` has joined #schooltool | 18:16 | |
| ignas | are invoked in the second part of the lookup | 18:16 |
| ignas | that only gets Object and Permission | 18:16 |
| dwelsh | thurs, june 28 - sunday, july 1 | 18:16 |
| dwelsh | thurs, june 28th may be the most important day | 18:17 |
| dwelsh | is that the day you're talking about? | 18:17 |
| ignas | pcardune: you understand in what way adding attributes="members something-else" to <allow> was a flawed idea? | 18:17 |
| pcardune | yes | 18:17 |
| pcardune | I hadn't thought about it really hard at that point | 18:18 |
| ignas | ok | 18:18 |
| ignas | just wanted to be suer | 18:18 |
| ignas | sure | 18:18 |
| ignas | how do i run the agent? | 18:18 |
| wdickers | dwelsh: My classes start the 30th, but I should be able to be on most/part of the time. I'm not sure if I'm going up there the 28th or s9th | 18:19 |
| wdickers | ignas: Run as in full blown taking events and making messages? | 18:19 |
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| wdickers | See the README.txt, there's quite a few steps | 18:19 |
| wdickers | you have to have two cando/schooltool instances, chesty, and tinyZIS | 18:19 |
| th1a | ignas: you should need this: https://svn1.hosted-projects.com/sif/pyagentlib/trunk/chesty | 18:19 |
| mgedmin | yay sourceforge for being the canonical unreliable software repository that breaks schooltool's buildbot: http://source.schooltool.org/buildbot/pov-schooltool/builds/128/step-compile/0 | 18:20 |
| th1a | I guess one important question at this point is whether or not directly manipulating persons (in particular) is a hypothetical or real problem. | 18:20 |
| th1a | By "real" I mean "immediate." | 18:23 |
| ignas | th1a: immediate | 18:24 |
| ignas | ZIS can delete manager | 18:24 |
| ignas | and nothing is there to stop it | 18:24 |
| ignas | when ZIS deletes some person, his calendars, relationships to groups stay in place | 18:24 |
| ignas | so if you delete john, john disappears from Person list | 18:24 |
| ignas | but still is in all the groups he was before | 18:24 |
| th1a | OK. | 18:24 |
| th1a | Gotcha. | 18:24 |
| wdickers | ignas: ah-ha, I'm seeing what you meant now ;] | 18:25 |
| pcardune | jelkner: ping | 18:27 |
| th1a | I think we need pcardune to research our options at this point. | 18:27 |
| wdickers | dwelsh: Apparently I'm leaving the 30th. So I can physically be at the sprint the 28th and 29th | 18:27 |
| th1a | Research and test. | 18:27 |
| pcardune | I'll get on it starting later this week | 18:27 |
| *** wdickers has quit IRC | 18:27 | |
| th1a | You'll need to know what we need to do before the sprint. | 18:28 |
| pcardune | yep :) | 18:28 |
| th1a | So you know whether you're teaching how to use REST or something else. | 18:28 |
| pcardune | th1a: are you going to be there also? | 18:28 |
| th1a | I'm afraid not. | 18:28 |
| pcardune | ok | 18:28 |
| pcardune | good to know | 18:28 |
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| wdickers_ | sorry guys, I have to leave. I'll read the logs | 18:29 |
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| ignas | by the way - please rename stAgentPackage to something like "agent" please | 18:30 |
| ignas | or zisagent | 18:30 |
| ignas | or something that would make sense in the context of src/schooltool/ content | 18:30 |
| tdoggette | sifagent? | 18:31 |
| th1a | It has to be differentiated from other agents as well. | 18:31 |
| th1a | So something like sifagent isn't good. | 18:31 |
| ignas | what agents? | 18:31 |
| ignas | will schooltool have more agents? | 18:31 |
| th1a | Other applications will have agents. | 18:31 |
| Lumiere | back in a bit, lunch | 18:31 |
| th1a | Anyhow, I think stAgent is fine. | 18:32 |
| ignas | i mean camel cased thing in src/schooltool/ rom src/cando/ is breaking naming conventions | 18:32 |
| th1a | stagent? | 18:32 |
| mgedmin | yay for PEP-8 | 18:32 |
| ignas | why st ? it's in src/schooltool already | 18:32 |
| ignas | so its schooltool.agent | 18:32 |
| ignas | or cando.agent | 18:32 |
| ignas | i am not talking about the name of the application, but about the name of the schooltool part of it | 18:33 |
| ignas | stAgentPackage does not make sense | 18:33 |
| cpcarey | right, because the schooltool package name already distinguishes from other agents | 18:34 |
| ignas | or cando package name (it said cando in the instructions) | 18:34 |
| tdoggette | But it's not a cando thing, it's a schooltool thing. | 18:35 |
| ignas | then put it in schooltool | 18:35 |
| ignas | why README says to put it in src/cando ? | 18:35 |
| tdoggette | it's wdickers' README, but he just left. | 18:36 |
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| th1a | OK, I'm not going to argue the point. | 18:38 |
| th1a | So... seems like we're running out of gas here. | 18:46 |
| pcardune | yes | 18:46 |
| pcardune | here is my plan | 18:46 |
| th1a | Shoot. | 18:46 |
| AVN` | hey, can I get an assignment? | 18:46 |
| pcardune | I'm going to head out and get my money back from those Staples thieves | 18:46 |
| pcardune | AVN`: yes, i'll talk to you in a sec | 18:47 |
| AVN` | thanks | 18:47 |
| pcardune | AVN`: or you could talk to eldar to | 18:47 |
| pcardune | then I'm going to talk to Jason about global competency IDs | 18:47 |
| pcardune | then I'm going to try to set up schooltool.agent ;) on my local machine | 18:47 |
| AVN` | Eldar, are you here? | 18:47 |
| pcardune | and maybe spike | 18:47 |
| pcardune | and see what I can tinker with | 18:47 |
| pcardune | I'll get back to you guys later today with what I discover if anything. how does that sound th1a | 18:48 |
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| th1a | Fine. We're basically in your hands, pcardune. | 18:48 |
| cpcarey | i'm going to head out, anything else i should know? | 18:48 |
| pcardune | th1a: ok | 18:49 |
| AVN` | I don't eldar is at the keyboard | 18:51 |
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| *** tdoggette has quit IRC | 18:56 | |
| * th1a getting lunch. | 18:56 | |
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| eldar | AVN`: hey what's up | 19:09 |
| AVN` | yeah, I need a job | 19:09 |
| eldar | what's your real name? | 19:09 |
| AVN` | Chris Beacham | 19:09 |
| eldar | what have you been working on? | 19:09 |
| AVN` | I was working with Filip | 19:10 |
| eldar | well, i don't know what you can do, you took paul's class, right? | 19:10 |
| eldar | did you have a little project of your own | 19:11 |
| eldar | to test what you learned? | 19:11 |
| AVN` | uh, yes | 19:11 |
| AVN` | I was doing a forum, with filip | 19:12 |
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| eldar | well, chris, what do you know? html/css, javascript? | 19:13 |
| AVN` | html, not Css or javascript, though I could probally find an online tutorial for CSS or javascript | 19:14 |
| eldar | hmm, since you've been working with filip | 19:17 |
| eldar | why don't you work with him on printable form | 19:18 |
| eldar | ask him if he doesn't mind | 19:18 |
| eldar | brb | 19:18 |
| AVN` | ok | 19:18 |
| *** filip101 has joined #schooltool | 19:19 | |
| AVN` | hey! | 19:19 |
| AVN` | Fili | 19:19 |
| filip101 | AVN`: yo | 19:19 |
| AVN` | just the guy I wanted to see | 19:19 |
| filip101 | oh great <_< | 19:19 |
| AVN` | lets start working | 19:20 |
| filip101 | I'm already working :-P | 19:20 |
| filip101 | do you have a cando instance? | 19:20 |
| AVN` | no | 19:20 |
| filip101 | hm. | 19:20 |
| filip101 | do you have gobby? | 19:20 |
| AVN` | i will apt-get | 19:20 |
| filip101 | do that | 19:20 |
| filip101 | meanwhile... | 19:20 |
| filip101 | eldar: how can AVN` procure a working cando07? | 19:21 |
| AVN` | ok, now I have gobbu | 19:21 |
| AVN` | *y | 19:21 |
| filip101 | ok... let me try to start a gobby server on maddog | 19:22 |
| AVN` | also, what is the address of timeclock again? | 19:22 |
| filip101 | timeclock.yhspatriot.net/timeclock | 19:23 |
| filip101 | connect to maddog.yhspatriot.net using gobby | 19:23 |
| filip101 | default port | 19:23 |
| AVN` | ok | 19:24 |
| filip101 | eldar: are you there? | 19:24 |
| AVN` | he is brb | 19:24 |
| filip101 | oh ok | 19:24 |
| AVN` | uh gobby is taking a long time to connect | 19:26 |
| filip101 | o_O | 19:26 |
| AVN` | default port is 6522 | 19:26 |
| filip101 | yes | 19:26 |
| filip101 | are you firewalling? | 19:26 |
| AVN` | no | 19:26 |
| AVN` | it connected now | 19:26 |
| filip101 | oh ok | 19:26 |
| eldar | sorry was busy | 19:37 |
| eldar | to produce a working cando | 19:37 |
| eldar | follow the instructions at http://www.schooltool.org/products/cando/documentation/how-to/checking-out-from-the-cando-repository | 19:38 |
| filip101 | eldar: chris says you're back | 19:39 |
| filip101 | are you? | 19:39 |
| filip101 | let me reconnect, gaim is being stupid | 19:40 |
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| AVN` | apparantly | 19:40 |
| *** Portugal has joined #schooltool | 19:41 | |
| Portugal | there we go | 19:41 |
| AVN` | uh | 19:41 |
| AVN` | Portugal? | 19:41 |
| Portugal | wtf, it changed my username | 19:41 |
| AVN` | lol | 19:41 |
| eldar | yeah i am back | 19:42 |
| AVN` | why did it change to Portugal | 19:42 |
| *** Portugal is now known as filip101_ | 19:42 | |
| filip101_ | i was playing around with Diplomacy stuff | 19:42 |
| filip101_ | ok good | 19:42 |
| AVN` | ah | 19:43 |
| filip101_ | eldar: pcardune forwarded me to you with the printform | 19:43 |
| eldar | oh right | 19:43 |
| eldar | setting up your own branch | 19:43 |
| eldar | right? | 19:43 |
| filip101_ | that's next | 19:43 |
| filip101_ | right now i'm working on getting single students to display | 19:43 |
| eldar | ok gimme a few minutes to set that up | 19:43 |
| filip101_ | um... ok | 19:44 |
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| eldar | crap, i don't have my private key on me | 19:47 |
| eldar | so i can't login to the server and give you commit access | 19:47 |
| eldar | let's put that off for later | 19:47 |
| eldar | to answer the question in your email, yea, the pdf should have only a list of students | 19:48 |
| eldar | and grading cells | 19:48 |
| filip101_ | ok | 19:48 |
| eldar | with competencies labeled of course | 19:48 |
| filip101_ | yes, i did that | 19:48 |
| eldar | very good | 19:48 |
| filip101_ | i removed the macros | 19:49 |
| filip101_ | so now i need to get single students displaying instead of the whole crowd | 19:49 |
| filip101_ | what i want to do is do some JS magic to make all the other students dissapear when one of them is clicked | 19:49 |
| eldar | did you figure out which page template that is? | 19:49 |
| filip101_ | well shouldnt it be the same one? | 19:49 |
| eldar | no | 19:49 |
| eldar | alright in that list | 19:49 |
| filip101_ | shoot | 19:49 |
| eldar | the gradebook.py | 19:49 |
| eldar | when you click on a student | 19:49 |
| eldar | you get the view for the studnet | 19:50 |
| eldar | it's a little different | 19:50 |
| eldar | or rather ... very different | 19:50 |
| filip101_ | let me check out gradebook.py | 19:50 |
| filip101_ | o yea | 19:50 |
| filip101_ | oops | 19:50 |
| eldar | to find which template it is | 19:50 |
| eldar | you just go to configure file | 19:51 |
| eldar | and use either the url page name, or the view class name | 19:51 |
| eldar | to search | 19:51 |
| eldar | for the xml entry | 19:51 |
| filip101_ | apparently it's studentgrades.py | 19:52 |
| filip101_ | *pt | 19:52 |
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| aelkner | Lumiere: are you really there, or are you just pretending? | 20:01 |
| eldar | almost everyone is pretending | 20:03 |
| aelkner | Yeh, I've noticed that. I believe in signing off when I leave my computer. | 20:04 |
| eldar | well, this irc thing has sort of become like a leave a message system | 20:04 |
| eldar | you leave a message and stay hoping that someone will answer | 20:04 |
| eldar | and you stay on just to answer those messages when you have tinme | 20:04 |
| pcardune | :) | 20:05 |
| aelkner | I guess so. | 20:05 |
| aelkner | I was here at noon and there wasn't a meeting. What gives? | 20:05 |
| pcardune | read the logs, and you will know why | 20:05 |
| aelkner | Ok. | 20:05 |
| pcardune | we spent the entire morning meeting about ZIS/SIF stuff | 20:06 |
| pcardune | Most folks were totally meeting'd out | 20:06 |
| filip101_ | eldar: sorry to break in, but isnt there already a printable student report? | 20:06 |
| pcardune | aelkner: oh btw, I made some bug fixes to journals, so you'll want to do a merge from trunk | 20:06 |
| Lumiere | eh | 20:06 |
| Lumiere | just back from lunch | 20:06 |
| eldar | yeah, there is an already printable student report | 20:07 |
| eldar | filip101_: but that one serves a different purpose | 20:07 |
| eldar | it is for official use | 20:07 |
| filip101_ | oh | 20:07 |
| eldar | what you are working on is just a gradesheet to print out | 20:07 |
| filip101_ | so you want one that the teachers would just use to print to show the students to tell them what to do and not to do? | 20:07 |
| eldar | so people don't have to go to a computer every time they grade | 20:07 |
| aelkner | pcarduner: will do. | 20:07 |
| filip101_ | oooh, so something to just print out and write on... | 20:08 |
| filip101_ | ok | 20:08 |
| filip101_ | that works | 20:08 |
| pcardune | filip101_: the kind of thing you put on a clipboard | 20:08 |
| *** alga has quit IRC | 20:08 | |
| eldar | sort of, teachers want to print the gradesheet | 20:08 |
| eldar | put it on a clipboard | 20:08 |
| eldar | and carry it around with them | 20:08 |
| eldar | that's why we want it really simple | 20:08 |
| pcardune | think of tracking competencies in a automobile mechanics class | 20:08 |
| AVN` | ./schooltool-server.py | 20:08 |
| AVN` | oh | 20:08 |
| AVN` | lol, wrong window | 20:08 |
| pcardune | eldar: are you experience lag? | 20:08 |
| filip101_ | di c | 20:09 |
| filip101_ | *i c | 20:09 |
| filip101_ | what kind of info should there be on the sheet? | 20:09 |
| filip101_ | competency id, grade, evidence...? | 20:09 |
| filip101_ | brb | 20:10 |
| Lumiere | aelkner: yes? | 20:10 |
| aelkner | Never mind. I was wondering about the meeting. Paul told me it was canceled. | 20:11 |
| Lumiere | everyone was around yesterday and talked | 20:11 |
| aelkner | I'll read the logs. | 20:11 |
| Lumiere | ok | 20:12 |
| pcardune | filip101_: i think eldar is experiencing lag :) | 20:12 |
| pcardune | there should be: | 20:12 |
| pcardune | competency id, grade | 20:12 |
| pcardune | and competency title | 20:12 |
| pcardune | filip101_: which form is this for? | 20:12 |
| filip101_ | back | 20:13 |
| eldar | oh sorry hahaha | 20:13 |
| eldar | i am working on the trunk | 20:13 |
| filip101_ | this is for the individual student | 20:13 |
| AVN` | and overall grade? | 20:14 |
| filip101_ | overall grade is a whole diff thing | 20:14 |
| filip101_ | actually there shouldnt be an overall grade, as these are competencies, not grades | 20:15 |
| AVN` | average competiancie then? | 20:15 |
| filip101_ | i believe eldar told me not to worry about that on satuday | 20:16 |
| eldar | we | 20:16 |
| eldar | don't have to put statistics | 20:16 |
| eldar | on the gradesheet that people are gonna use to carry around and record grades | 20:16 |
| AVN` | if there are like 400 different competnecies in a class, the student might want to know in general how well s/he's doing | 20:16 |
| AVN` | ok | 20:16 |
| filip101_ | this isnt for the student | 20:16 |
| filip101_ | this is for the teacer | 20:16 |
| filip101_ | *teacher | 20:17 |
| AVN` | oh, ok | 20:17 |
| AVN` | i got confused | 20:17 |
| eldar | unless we are told otherwise, at least that's my assumption | 20:17 |
| AVN` | <filip101_> this is for the individual student | 20:17 |
| eldar | pcardune: what's your take on this? | 20:17 |
| eldar | Lumiere: want to clarify this for us? | 20:17 |
| pcardune | for the teacher | 20:17 |
| filip101_ | gr, what i meant is there's a sheet for each student and the teacher uses it to take notes on that student | 20:17 |
| AVN` | ok, ok | 20:17 |
| filip101_ | (why can't i ever be straight-forward?) | 20:17 |
| AVN` | i get it | 20:18 |
| AVN` | I thought you meant like a sheet for the student to look at and see how well he is doing | 20:18 |
| filip101_ | good. | 20:18 |
| eldar | no, this is for the teacher | 20:18 |
| filip101_ | no, that's the grade report, and there's already one | 20:18 |
| eldar | to record grades | 20:18 |
| pcardune | filip101_: because programmers like to be tricksy | 20:18 |
| filip101_ | lol, i know that feeling ;) | 20:18 |
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| Lumiere | hmm | 20:20 |
| pcardune | Lumiere: are you ready to talk about global IDs? | 20:21 |
| Lumiere | the printout sheet should be for a single comp-group | 20:21 |
| Lumiere | and shouldn't contain any summary data | 20:21 |
| Lumiere | it should just be the list of comps | 20:21 |
| Lumiere | and the current grades | 20:21 |
| filip101_ | ok | 20:22 |
| filip101_ | that's simple! | 20:22 |
| Lumiere | yes | 20:22 |
| Lumiere | there should be space next to the current grade | 20:22 |
| filip101_ | ok | 20:23 |
| filip101_ | so just another empty column in the table | 20:23 |
| Lumiere | or even just put a pair of | 20:23 |
| filip101_ | ok | 20:23 |
| filip101_ | btw, i've always been wondering what the special symbol (like ) for a tab is | 20:23 |
| Lumiere | there isn't one | 20:24 |
| filip101_ | oh | 20:24 |
| filip101_ | ok then | 20:24 |
| filip101_ | a bunch of it is | 20:24 |
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| pcardune | Lumiere: ping pong | 20:24 |
| Lumiere | yea | 20:24 |
| Lumiere | jelkner is here | 20:25 |
| pcardune | he is? | 20:25 |
| eldar | filip101_: don't use nbsp | 20:25 |
| pcardune | use css | 20:25 |
| eldar | yeah, besides | 20:25 |
| Lumiere | css can do it too | 20:25 |
| eldar | if there is a grade in a cell | 20:25 |
| eldar | you're going to have to widen the entire column | 20:25 |
| Lumiere | eldar: there needs to be space next to the grade | 20:25 |
| eldar | and putting nbsps | 20:26 |
| eldar | in every cell in the column | 20:26 |
| eldar | is ugly | 20:26 |
| * Lumiere agrees | 20:26 | |
| filip101_ | ok... | 20:26 |
| eldar | just check if there is a grade in a column | 20:26 |
| eldar | and if there is | 20:26 |
| Lumiere | pcardune: I have gobby up on maddog:6128 for the xml xsd | 20:26 |
| pcardune | ok | 20:26 |
| eldar | widen the column | 20:26 |
| eldar | and do align left/right | 20:26 |
| eldar | for the grade | 20:26 |
| eldar | so that there is room for the new one | 20:26 |
| filip101_ | oh ok | 20:26 |
| filip101_ | yeah, i was about to ask about that | 20:27 |
| filip101_ | the table for the competencies expands to fill the horizontal space 100% | 20:30 |
| filip101_ | is that all right or do i need to shrink it? | 20:30 |
| pcardune | Lumiere: shall we skype? | 20:31 |
| Lumiere | there's another conversation going in here | 20:31 |
| Lumiere | skype would just make it too wierd | 20:31 |
| pcardune | lol | 20:31 |
| *** ignas has quit IRC | 20:32 | |
| filip101_ | i'd be glad to be quiet if u want to use the channel :) | 20:32 |
| Lumiere | nah | 20:32 |
| eldar | hahaha | 20:32 |
| eldar | they can PM | 20:32 |
| Lumiere | we are on gobby for it | 20:32 |
| filip101_ | oh ok | 20:32 |
| eldar | what do you mean 100%/ | 20:32 |
| eldar | like what would be the entire page? | 20:32 |
| filip101_ | like it stretches to fill the whole width | 20:32 |
| eldar | hmm | 20:33 |
| filip101_ | half of it is the first column, the competency name, and half is the grade | 20:33 |
| eldar | Lumiere: how do you want the single student gradesheet to look? | 20:33 |
| Lumiere | eldar: there shouldn't be a single student grade shet | 20:33 |
| eldar | uhhh | 20:33 |
| filip101_ | ... | 20:33 |
| filip101_ | did i just get pwned? | 20:33 |
| eldar | i think so | 20:34 |
| filip101_ | >_< | 20:34 |
| Lumiere | go for skill drivers | 20:34 |
| Lumiere | and comp groups | 20:34 |
| eldar | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cando/+spec/printable-forms | 20:34 |
| eldar | look at the spec | 20:34 |
| eldar | all you have to do is competency group | 20:34 |
| eldar | and skill driver | 20:34 |
| eldar | quarterly grading isn't implemented yet | 20:34 |
| eldar | so that's for later | 20:34 |
| filip101_ | ok | 20:35 |
| Lumiere | quarterly grading is very similar to skill driver | 20:35 |
| filip101_ | darn, so the past.. 45 mins has been wasted :( | 20:35 |
| filip101_ | what's the skill driver? | 20:35 |
| Lumiere | pcardune: what's the branch on skill driver | 20:35 |
| eldar | i haven't made one because my private key | 20:35 |
| eldar | is somewhere else, i have to give filip acess | 20:36 |
| eldar | access* to in order to have it be any use | 20:36 |
| pcardune | Lumiere: trunk | 20:36 |
| filip101_ | so for now i'm locked up? | 20:36 |
| eldar | what do you mean locked up? | 20:36 |
| eldar | you can work on your own machine | 20:36 |
| filip101_ | i'm just confused, what is a skill driver? | 20:36 |
| eldar | then on thursday i'll give you a branch | 20:36 |
| filip101_ | oh ok | 20:36 |
| pcardune | eldar: I can add him | 20:37 |
| eldar | haha thanks | 20:37 |
| pcardune | I just have to remember how to do it | 20:37 |
| pcardune | that is the hardest part really | 20:37 |
| eldar | yea | 20:37 |
| filip101_ | i'm still confused as to what i need to do | 20:38 |
| filip101_ | what is a skill driver so i can sort stuff by it? | 20:38 |
| pcardune | filip101_: you username is going to be filip | 20:38 |
| pcardune | or actually, it will be fsufitchi | 20:38 |
| filip101_ | ok | 20:38 |
| filip101_ | i prefer fsufitch | 20:38 |
| filip101_ | 8 letter :) | 20:38 |
| pcardune | or yeah, that is better | 20:38 |
| filip101_ | that, and many people know me as fsufitch rather than filip | 20:39 |
| Lumiere | filip101_: /nick fsufitch then XD | 20:39 |
| *** filip101_ is now known as fsufitch | 20:39 | |
| fsufitch | :) | 20:39 |
| pcardune | fsufitch: i pmed your password | 20:40 |
| pcardune | you should now have access | 20:40 |
| fsufitch | ok... | 20:41 |
| eldar | in your SchoolTool/src/cando folder | 20:41 |
| eldar | relocate | 20:41 |
| fsufitch | i'm there | 20:41 |
| fsufitch | wait, so i should copy everything i've done to there? | 20:42 |
| eldar | http://www.schooltool.org/products/cando/documentation/how-to/checking-out-from-the-cando-repository/ | 20:42 |
| eldar | huh? | 20:42 |
| fsufitch | wha? | 20:42 |
| eldar | no i'm just showing you | 20:42 |
| fsufitch | oh | 20:42 |
| fsufitch | ok | 20:42 |
| eldar | how to make your checkout | 20:42 |
| eldar | a developer checkout | 20:42 |
| eldar | so you can commit | 20:42 |
| fsufitch | oh ok | 20:42 |
| eldar | right now your checkout is anonymous | 20:42 |
| eldar | http://www.schooltool.org/products/cando/documentation/how-to/checking-out-from-the-cando-repository/ | 20:42 |
| eldar | svn switch --relocate http://svn.schooltool.org/cando/trunk/src/cando https://username@svn.schooltool.org/cando/trunk/src/cando | 20:43 |
| eldar | use that command | 20:43 |
| fsufitch | ok | 20:44 |
| eldar | now you have commit accessssssssssss | 20:45 |
| fsufitch | ok | 20:45 |
| eldar | ok | 20:46 |
| eldar | to create a branch | 20:46 |
| eldar | you do | 20:47 |
| eldar | svn copy https://username@svn.schooltool.org/cando/trunk https://username@svn.schooltool.org/cando/branches/printable-forms -m "Creating a branch for printable forms spec" | 20:48 |
| eldar | or | 20:48 |
| eldar | just look up how to make svn branches on google | 20:48 |
| eldar | take a few minutes to learn svn | 20:49 |
| fsufitch | Committed revision 803. ^_^ | 20:50 |
| fsufitch | what's svn blame | 20:50 |
| fsufitch | it looks fun to use :) | 20:50 |
| eldar | lol | 20:51 |
| eldar | alright | 20:51 |
| eldar | what you do now | 20:51 |
| eldar | is go somewhere to your home directory | 20:51 |
| eldar | and checkout your branch | 20:51 |
| fsufitch | svn co what? | 20:52 |
| fsufitch | https://username@svn.schooltool.org/cando/branches/printable-forms ??? | 20:52 |
| eldar | svn co https://username@svn.schooltool.org/cando/branches/printable-forms/ mybranch-orwhateveryounamethe folder | 20:52 |
| eldar | yeah | 20:52 |
| eldar | you're replacing username with fsufitch right? | 20:52 |
| fsufitch | yes | 20:52 |
| fsufitch | >_> i swear my username is "username" | 20:53 |
| eldar | lol | 20:53 |
| fsufitch | ok, so i did that | 20:54 |
| eldar | alright | 20:54 |
| fsufitch | then i run make in the branch folder? | 20:54 |
| eldar | yeah | 20:54 |
| fsufitch | heh | 20:54 |
| fsufitch | i just saw a makefile | 20:54 |
| fsufitch | so i immediately thought make | 20:54 |
| fsufitch | it seems to be sort of stuck on an egg | 20:56 |
| eldar | it's alright | 20:56 |
| eldar | the server | 20:56 |
| eldar | prolly is taking its time | 20:56 |
| eldar | responding | 20:56 |
| eldar | it'll be done eventually | 20:56 |
| fsufitch | oh ok, it's unstuck | 20:56 |
| fsufitch | pcardune: you have a really nice site at carduner.net | 20:57 |
| pcardune | fsufitch: thanks, it's a zope3 app | 20:58 |
| pcardune | surprise surprise | 20:58 |
| fsufitch | i noticed it looked like one :) | 20:58 |
| fsufitch | really beautified | 20:58 |
| fsufitch | although whenever someone says zope and its looks i think the ZMI automatically | 20:58 |
| fsufitch | which is sort of bad | 20:59 |
| eldar | lol | 20:59 |
| eldar | his site's comment section | 20:59 |
| eldar | is hammered | 20:59 |
| eldar | by bots | 20:59 |
| eldar | i just noticed that | 20:59 |
| Lumiere | yea | 20:59 |
| fsufitch | lol | 20:59 |
| pcardune | yeah | 21:00 |
| pcardune | ... haven't gotten to that yet | 21:00 |
| fsufitch | just make any comments with anchor tags get killed | 21:00 |
| eldar | lol just put a single stupid captcha | 21:00 |
| eldar | that's not even a captcha | 21:00 |
| eldar | most of them aren't good enough | 21:01 |
| eldar | to answer radio fields | 21:01 |
| eldar | put in a question | 21:01 |
| eldar | "Are you human?" | 21:01 |
| eldar | yes/no | 21:01 |
| pcardune | lol | 21:01 |
| pcardune | that would be good | 21:01 |
| fsufitch | lol yes | 21:01 |
| eldar | the bots that attack your site won't handle that | 21:01 |
| fsufitch | my branch is finally done making | 21:02 |
| fsufitch | will it always take this long? | 21:02 |
| fsufitch | or longer and longer as the app grows? ;) | 21:02 |
| pcardune | fsufitch: it takes that long because of dependencies | 21:03 |
| fsufitch | so, since the dependencies would already be there next time, it won't take so long? | 21:04 |
| eldar | no | 21:04 |
| eldar | it's just the first time | 21:04 |
| eldar | when it downloads the sources and eggs | 21:04 |
| fsufitch | i c | 21:04 |
| eldar | yeah | 21:04 |
| fsufitch | ok | 21:04 |
| fsufitch | good :) | 21:04 |
| eldar | now you can just move your stuff | 21:05 |
| fsufitch | ok | 21:05 |
| eldar | don't move folders though | 21:05 |
| eldar | only files | 21:05 |
| fsufitch | right | 21:05 |
| eldar | folders have .svns in them | 21:05 |
| eldar | so copying them might mess things up | 21:05 |
| pcardune | you chose not to just do a svn switch --relocate? | 21:06 |
| eldar | i wanted him to checkout his branch | 21:06 |
| eldar | it's a good feeling | 21:06 |
| fsufitch | hehe | 21:06 |
| eldar | and he'll know the url | 21:06 |
| eldar | and how to do it in the future | 21:06 |
| pcardune | stagent is a lot of work to get running | 21:06 |
| pcardune | eldar: ok sounds good | 21:07 |
| pcardune | it is a good feeling :) | 21:07 |
| fsufitch | whoa | 21:08 |
| fsufitch | it dies when i try to run it | 21:09 |
| eldar | what does it say | 21:09 |
| fsufitch | i'll paste it to lisppaste | 21:09 |
| * pcardune thinks about taking a nap | 21:09 | |
| Lumiere | pcardune: you should try not to | 21:09 |
| *** mgedmin has quit IRC | 21:09 | |
| Lumiere | the jetlag will be worse | 21:09 |
| pcardune | don't worry, i'll set an alarm | 21:10 |
| pcardune | lol | 21:10 |
| eldar | haha | 21:10 |
| eldar | go get some sleep | 21:10 |
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| lisppaste5 | fsufitch pasted "error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/43061 | 21:12 |
| eldar | it says address already in use | 21:12 |
| eldar | lol | 21:12 |
| eldar | shut your other instance down | 21:12 |
| eldar | or put in a new port for this one | 21:12 |
| fsufitch | oh | 21:12 |
| fsufitch | oops | 21:12 |
| eldar | to configure a new port for this instance edit the schooltool.conf.in file | 21:13 |
| fsufitch | it doesn't matter | 21:13 |
| eldar | and file a line that has 7080 in it | 21:13 |
| fsufitch | i shut down the other one | 21:13 |
| fsufitch | yes, i remember | 21:13 |
| fsufitch | it was one of the first things i asked about the instance ;) | 21:13 |
| * pcardune goes to take a nap before he starts committing broken code left and right and making generally poor life decisions | 21:13 | |
| Lumiere | lol | 21:14 |
| eldar | have a good power nap | 21:14 |
| fsufitch | i wish i could | 21:14 |
| fsufitch | ah well | 21:15 |
| fsufitch | is there some way to grab the old classes, students etc from the old cando instance? | 21:15 |
| fsufitch | cuz i dont particularly feel like making them all again | 21:15 |
| *** alga has quit IRC | 21:15 | |
| eldar | screw napping, i'm going to go play basketball in a few hours | 21:15 |
| eldar | yeah | 21:15 |
| eldar | in SchoolTool folder | 21:15 |
| eldar | there is | 21:15 |
| eldar | schooltool-skel/var/Data.fs | 21:16 |
| Lumiere | shut down the new instance before copying | 21:16 |
| eldar | copy the one from the old one | 21:16 |
| fsufitch | ok | 21:16 |
| fsufitch | thx, Lumiere | 21:16 |
| fsufitch | that was close :) | 21:16 |
| eldar | hahaha, Lumiere is speaking from experience | 21:16 |
| Lumiere | the behaviour is undefined otherwise ;) | 21:16 |
| fsufitch | yes | 21:16 |
| Lumiere | eldar: yea but usually | 21:16 |
| Lumiere | it's me trying to copy from a running instance | 21:16 |
| eldar | wasn't it dwelsh who did that first | 21:17 |
| Lumiere | oh yes | 21:17 |
| Lumiere | but trying to back up a zodb | 21:17 |
| Lumiere | is a pain | 21:17 |
| eldar | why? | 21:17 |
| Lumiere | they need to make a program that can back up a zodb at runtime | 21:17 |
| eldar | is going down for maintenance that bad? | 21:17 |
| Lumiere | it can be | 21:18 |
| fsufitch | eldar: what about Data.fs.index? | 21:18 |
| eldar | well then | 21:18 |
| fsufitch | doesn't matter? | 21:18 |
| eldar | keep a mirrored | 21:18 |
| eldar | partition | 21:18 |
| eldar | if you're that concerned | 21:18 |
| Lumiere | still not enough backup | 21:18 |
| Lumiere | I'm as SysAdmin... | 21:18 |
| eldar | don't worry about the index | 21:18 |
| eldar | it's trivial | 21:18 |
| fsufitch | ok | 21:18 |
| Lumiere | and is rebuilt | 21:18 |
| Lumiere | as needed | 21:18 |
| eldar | it's only crucial when you actually indexed your db | 21:19 |
| fsufitch | ok | 21:19 |
| eldar | you didn't so it's alright | 21:19 |
| fsufitch | what _is_ indexing a db? | 21:19 |
| Lumiere | it's a search optimization | 21:20 |
| fsufitch | i c | 21:20 |
| fsufitch | that's all right, i'm never searching for anything | 21:20 |
| Lumiere | zope generates it as needed | 21:20 |
| fsufitch | so now that i have this up, what is a skill driver, so i know how to print the competency gradebook by skill drivers? | 21:21 |
| Lumiere | well I wish pcardune were around :) | 21:21 |
| Lumiere | skill driver is a new feature for cando07 | 21:21 |
| Lumiere | where a teacher has a lesson who's purpose is to help students aquire skills | 21:22 |
| fsufitch | so the skill driver is a lesson? | 21:22 |
| Lumiere | yes | 21:22 |
| Lumiere | cando will have a view (like comp-gradebook) | 21:22 |
| Lumiere | but that only has the competencies related to the lesson | 21:22 |
| Lumiere | I expect that the printout for that will be used most often | 21:22 |
| fsufitch | i c | 21:23 |
| fsufitch | so how do i add a new skill driver? | 21:23 |
| eldar | skilldrivers aren't completely finished | 21:23 |
| Lumiere | eldar: pcardune says they're ready for teacher testing | 21:23 |
| fsufitch | ... then how do i use them? | 21:23 |
| eldar | you might wanna play around with them, but don't hope anything you write will stick | 21:23 |
| fsufitch | ok... | 21:23 |
| Lumiere | lol | 21:23 |
| Lumiere | fsufitch: from the actions menu of a section | 21:23 |
| Lumiere | should have a menu item skill drivers | 21:23 |
| Lumiere | I think | 21:24 |
| eldar | you can look at the skilldriver module itself | 21:24 |
| eldar | to see where it adds menu | 21:24 |
| eldar | items and stuff | 21:24 |
| fsufitch | i navigated to the skill driver section | 21:24 |
| fsufitch | but there's no way to add a new one | 21:24 |
| eldar | it's not under actions? | 21:24 |
| fsufitch | there _are_ no actions | 21:24 |
| eldar | you have competencies in that section, right? | 21:25 |
| fsufitch | yes | 21:25 |
| Lumiere | eldar: http://source.schooltool.org/buildbot/cando-coverage/builds/13 | 21:25 |
| eldar | hmm iono, i didn't write skilldrivers and don't really know how they work | 21:25 |
| eldar | you can look | 21:25 |
| eldar | at the browser tests | 21:25 |
| eldar | go to browser/README.txt | 21:25 |
| eldar | to see what's up | 21:25 |
| Lumiere | fsufitch: you may be stuck waiting for pcardune too | 21:25 |
| eldar | and hope pcardune actually wrote them | 21:25 |
| fsufitch | :( | 21:25 |
| Lumiere | at least on skill drivers | 21:26 |
| fsufitch | maybe some voodoo person wrote them >_> | 21:26 |
| Lumiere | fsufitch: or pcardune wrote them while dead tired | 21:26 |
| fsufitch | the otehr stuff is quarterly groups | 21:26 |
| fsufitch | which i hear don't even exist yet | 21:26 |
| eldar | Lumiere: oh i know tests are a mess, it's because Batching was changed in schooltool | 21:26 |
| eldar | and I'm not done changing the bazillion entries | 21:26 |
| eldar | we have using the old batching | 21:26 |
| eldar | yea, are you already done with competency group forms? | 21:27 |
| fsufitch | yes | 21:27 |
| fsufitch | should i send u a pdf with the look of it? | 21:27 |
| eldar | sure | 21:27 |
| eldar | hmmm, you might need to learn | 21:28 |
| eldar | how to generate pdfs | 21:28 |
| eldar | in zope3 | 21:28 |
| eldar | there is a module for that | 21:28 |
| fsufitch | or i could just use firefox :D | 21:28 |
| eldar | hahaha | 21:28 |
| eldar | iono, the clients might want it | 21:28 |
| eldar | we'll see | 21:28 |
| fsufitch | kk | 21:29 |
| Lumiere | start with printable css | 21:29 |
| Lumiere | but yes, someone needs to learn reportlab | 21:29 |
| th1a | It isn't so much learning pdfs in Zope 3 as pdfs in Python (ReportLab). | 21:29 |
| th1a | Although there is a Zope 3 module called pdftemplate that lets you use XML to lay out the templates. | 21:30 |
| th1a | I've actually used it. | 21:30 |
| fsufitch | eldar: i've sent you the file | 21:31 |
| *** pcardune has quit IRC | 21:31 | |
| eldar | thank you | 21:31 |
| fsufitch | btw, there's nothing about skill drivers in README.txt] | 21:32 |
| fsufitch | at least not in the one in browser/ | 21:32 |
| fsufitch | nope, not even in the other one | 21:33 |
| fsufitch | so whoever coded it hated auto-testing :) | 21:33 |
| eldar | ssshhh | 21:34 |
| fsufitch | lol | 21:34 |
| fsufitch | somebody's in denial | 21:34 |
| fsufitch | so i have to wait for pcardune to come back on? | 21:35 |
| Lumiere | seems so | 21:38 |
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| pcardune | why is it that you can feel so tired yet be totally unable to sleep? | 21:41 |
| eldar | not tired enough | 21:41 |
| AVN` | too many thoughts | 21:43 |
| fsufitch | you're back! | 21:44 |
| fsufitch | yay | 21:44 |
| fsufitch | so, pcardune, what is a skill driver and how does one use it? | 21:46 |
| pcardune | do you have a cando instance running? | 21:47 |
| fsufitch | yes | 21:47 |
| pcardune | go to a section | 21:47 |
| pcardune | click on competencies | 21:47 |
| pcardune | add some competenceis | 21:47 |
| pcardune | then go back to the section | 21:47 |
| pcardune | click on skill drivers | 21:47 |
| pcardune | play around :) | 21:47 |
| pcardune | in short: they are a different way of organizing competencies into specific tasks | 21:48 |
| pcardune | for example, you might give students an assignment and that assignment satisfies 5 competencies | 21:48 |
| fsufitch | i c | 21:48 |
| pcardune | so you create a skill driver for the assignment and link those 5 competencies | 21:48 |
| pcardune | then you can look at grading of just those 5... even if they are from different competency groups. | 21:49 |
| fsufitch | there is no way to add a skill driver though | 21:49 |
| fsufitch | there is no "actions" menu when i go to skilldrivers | 21:49 |
| fsufitch | agh, i'm done working for today | 21:53 |
| pcardune | oh, in that case try going to course level | 21:53 |
| fsufitch | course level? | 21:53 |
| pcardune | the course for the section | 21:53 |
| fsufitch | i see | 21:54 |
| fsufitch | now i g2g | 21:55 |
| fsufitch | i'll work on that next time | 21:55 |
| *** fsufitch is now known as fsufitch_away | 21:57 | |
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| pcardune | good thing I couldn't fall asleep, my alarm was set to vibrate... | 22:06 |
| AVN` | i wonder how Filip missed the new skill driver button ... | 22:09 |
| pcardune | AVN`: good question | 22:12 |
| AVN` | hmm | 22:30 |
| AVN` | I found a bug | 22:30 |
| AVN` | http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26305/ | 22:30 |
| Lumiere | AVN`: just so you know paste.lisp.org/new/schooltool is integrated to this room | 22:31 |
| *** Lumiere changes topic to "SchoolTool development | IRC logs at http://source.schooltool.org/irclogs/ | Dev meetings Mon, 13:30 UTC (15:30 EET) | Use http://paste.lisp.org/new/schooltool for pasting | CanDo dev meeting 10:30 Eastern/15:30 UTC" | 22:31 | |
| AVN` | ah | 22:32 |
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