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| th1a | dwelsh: Are we meeting here or on the phone? | 16:51 |
|---|---|---|
| dwelsh | meeting here | 16:51 |
| dwelsh | but can I call too? | 16:52 |
| th1a | Yes. | 16:52 |
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| dwelsh | OK. We're getting ready for ZIF-SIF mtg. | 16:57 |
| aelkner | Ready. | 16:58 |
| dwelsh | er, ZIS-SIF | 16:58 |
| dwelsh | Will Dickerson, you around??? | 16:59 |
| aelkner | He's not here yet. His handle is wdickers. | 16:59 |
| dwelsh | Just spoke with Elkner... we're thinking he'll join us | 16:59 |
| aelkner | This is his class perios, right? | 17:00 |
| aelkner | period. | 17:00 |
| jelkner | hi all | 17:00 |
| jelkner | wdickers can't get permission from his Psychology teacher to miss class | 17:01 |
| jelkner | he won't be here until 10:58ish | 17:01 |
| aelkner | Woudl that be a strick Freudian teacher? :) | 17:01 |
| jelkner | looks like it :-( | 17:02 |
| jelkner | so, do you all want to come back at 11? | 17:02 |
| dwelsh | No, let's go forward now. | 17:02 |
| dwelsh | Here we go on project status... | 17:02 |
| jelkner | dwelsh: who is running the show? | 17:02 |
| dwelsh | dwelsh will run the show. | 17:03 |
| th1a | hi jelkner. | 17:03 |
| dwelsh | I've spoken with Hoffman, Carduner and Jeff Elkner on this | 17:03 |
| dwelsh | Agenda items: | 17:03 |
| dwelsh | 1) ZIS-SIF project status | 17:03 |
| dwelsh | 2) Moving forward on our two main user stories | 17:04 |
| dwelsh | PROJECT STATUS: | 17:04 |
| dwelsh | Tom Hoffman has written ZIS agent, which basically works | 17:04 |
| dwelsh | He is working on a more robust (i.e. enterprise version) | 17:04 |
| dwelsh | Will Dickerson has written SIF client | 17:04 |
| dwelsh | which also basically works but still has some bugs | 17:04 |
| dwelsh | Will is doing another internship this summer | 17:05 |
| dwelsh | But will be available for questions at a minimum | 17:05 |
| th1a | dwelsh mixed up the terminology a bit, but he's basically right. | 17:05 |
| dwelsh | Corrections from Tom now: | 17:05 |
| th1a | I've written a ZIS (Zone Integration Server) and I'm working on a better one. | 17:05 |
| dwelsh | Gotcha | 17:06 |
| th1a | I've written a SIF agent library which Will used. | 17:06 |
| th1a | To create an agent (client) for SchoolTool. | 17:06 |
| th1a | Done. | 17:06 |
| dwelsh | So the 3 components are: | 17:06 |
| dwelsh | 1) ZIS | 17:06 |
| dwelsh | 2) SIF agent library | 17:06 |
| dwelsh | 3) SIF agent | 17:06 |
| dwelsh | ? | 17:07 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:07 |
| dwelsh | 2 new interns have been assigned to the SIF agent | 17:07 |
| dwelsh | They are: Chris Cary and Thomas Doggette | 17:07 |
| dwelsh | Chris Carey has the higher-level Python skills | 17:08 |
| dwelsh | Thomas is more in the assist/learning position | 17:08 |
| dwelsh | We have two user stories clamoring for ZIS-SIF | 17:08 |
| dwelsh | They are: | 17:08 |
| dwelsh | 1) Export-Import CanDo data from one instance/server into another | 17:08 |
| dwelsh | 2) Export-Import CanDo data from CanDo into a school's data warehouse (i.e. eSchoolsPlus) | 17:09 |
| dwelsh | Both of these stories have been written-up in some detail on the Trac-Wiki | 17:09 |
| dwelsh | Paul Carduner is stepping-in to try and use the ZIF-SIF pieces to address these user stories | 17:10 |
| dwelsh | So he wants this project update. | 17:10 |
| dwelsh | and he wants to see if he can move forward using these pieces to import-export CanDo data | 17:10 |
| dwelsh | and push the ZIF-SIF folks to get their pieces fully functional | 17:10 |
| dwelsh | Are we done with the project status part??? | 17:11 |
| dwelsh | Anything else to add? | 17:11 |
| dwelsh | Anyone else want to work on this??? | 17:11 |
| th1a | The good news is that Will has done the hard parts already, I think. | 17:11 |
| dwelsh | That's good | 17:11 |
| dwelsh | Tom, how has he done with it? | 17:11 |
| th1a | Once you establish the pattern, it becomes a matter of just doing the same thing over and over again. | 17:12 |
| th1a | To handle the different types of messages. | 17:12 |
| th1a | I think he's done well. | 17:12 |
| dwelsh | Good job, Will Dickerson and Jeff Elkner:) | 17:12 |
| dwelsh | What about moving forward? | 17:12 |
| dwelsh | Paul asks have we set-up and shared data between two CanDo instances using our ZIF-SIF? | 17:13 |
| dwelsh | I certainly have plenty of data. | 17:14 |
| th1a | I believe Will has. | 17:14 |
| dwelsh | Should I get Will to run a demo for us using 2 instances and data? | 17:14 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:14 |
| th1a | Finding out exactly where we are would seem to be the next step. | 17:14 |
| dwelsh | Jason and I can do this. We have plenty of data and instances. | 17:14 |
| dwelsh | Can't we use this test to find out where we are? | 17:15 |
| dwelsh | i.e. Can't we get will to try to export one piece of data using ZIS-SIF between the two instances? | 17:16 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:16 |
| dwelsh | OK. I say we begin right here. | 17:16 |
| dwelsh | Will wrote a nice routine last year to export-import competency lists from CanDo05 into CanDo06. | 17:16 |
| dwelsh | I was impressed with how well he did. | 17:17 |
| dwelsh | So in Will I am trusting. | 17:17 |
| dwelsh | :) | 17:17 |
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| dwelsh | Paul's second questions is: Do with have a CanDo SIF agent. | 17:17 |
| dwelsh | It sounds like we actually already do have the rudiments of one. | 17:17 |
| dwelsh | Am I correct about this? | 17:18 |
| th1a | YEs. | 17:18 |
| dwelsh | Great. | 17:19 |
| dwelsh | So now about moving forward. | 17:19 |
| th1a | Basically, once you get the thing running, it is just a matter of implementing specific messages. | 17:19 |
| dwelsh | Gotcha. | 17:19 |
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| dwelsh | And we certainly have specific messages in mind we want to send. | 17:19 |
| dwelsh | So here are my questions about moving forward. | 17:20 |
| dwelsh | We've got Tom, Paul, Will, Chris and Thomas all working on this. | 17:20 |
| dwelsh | We set-up our pieces and try to exchange one type of message. | 17:20 |
| dwelsh | Then we go after the other messages. | 17:20 |
| dwelsh | I am assuming Paul will be driving the overall process as he tries to handle the messages of the user story. | 17:21 |
| dwelsh | Who will help coordinate these three different pieces? | 17:21 |
| dwelsh | Paul (userstories), Tom (ZIS), Will-Chris-Thomas (agent) | 17:21 |
| dwelsh | Are we hoping that Paul will write additional code required to get it all working | 17:22 |
| th1a | When is Paul going to be back in DC? | 17:22 |
| dwelsh | Week after next | 17:22 |
| dwelsh | Or are we hoping Tom and Chris-Thomas will write additional code to get it all working? | 17:22 |
| th1a | I'm definitely planning to keep working on the ZIS and the agent library. | 17:23 |
| dwelsh | That's good news | 17:23 |
| th1a | But I think you need someone in DC to coordinate the CanDo agent. | 17:23 |
| th1a | I don't think I can explain this to interns remotely. | 17:24 |
| dwelsh | Can Paul figure out the code and process? | 17:24 |
| dwelsh | How much and how dense is the agent code? | 17:25 |
| th1a | It is pretty simple. | 17:25 |
| dwelsh | Well, that's good news. | 17:25 |
| th1a | I'm sure I could get Paul up to speed. | 17:25 |
| dwelsh | So I think we've boiled this down to the issue: | 17:26 |
| dwelsh | We need some agent coordination in DC | 17:26 |
| dwelsh | This line has been uttered many times in the DC area, | 17:26 |
| dwelsh | but rarely with regards to ZIS-SIF | 17:26 |
| dwelsh | Both Jeff Elkner and Will Dickerson become available at 11am. | 17:27 |
| dwelsh | I am going to put that question to each of them. | 17:27 |
| dwelsh | Overall, we are further along than Paul thought. | 17:27 |
| dwelsh | We have pretty good pieces. | 17:27 |
| th1a | I think so. | 17:28 |
| dwelsh | We need to coordinate the pieces and people to handle some specific messages. | 17:28 |
| dwelsh | That's all I have. | 17:28 |
| dwelsh | Any other thoughts about all of this? | 17:28 |
| th1a | Sounds right to me. | 17:28 |
| dwelsh | aelkner? | 17:28 |
| aelkner | We need to have a dialog box (web page) for initiating a transaction od the data. | 17:29 |
| aelkner | There needs to be configuration within schooltool for doing this. | 17:29 |
| aelkner | We talked about this, but I'm guessing Will hasn't got into that yet. | 17:30 |
| dwelsh | This sounds like the place where we need to start with Will as we use our pieces to send our first ZIS-SIF message. | 17:30 |
| aelkner | Do your user stories include the web pages and config? | 17:30 |
| dwelsh | That's actually not the job of the UserStory | 17:31 |
| dwelsh | That's a part of developer implementation. | 17:31 |
| aelkner | Not exactly. | 17:31 |
| dwelsh | But I encourage you guys to open-up a dialogue about this on the spec | 17:31 |
| aelkner | One needs to specify the user experience of initiating the transaction. | 17:31 |
| aelkner | So that the user knows what to do. | 17:31 |
| aelkner | Then the developers need to implement this. | 17:32 |
| dwelsh | The logical thought is go to command, "export CanDo data" | 17:32 |
| dwelsh | and then there's a dialgue there | 17:32 |
| aelkner | Right. | 17:32 |
| dwelsh | or "import CanDo data" | 17:32 |
| aelkner | But also there could be a config page so that each import doesn't ask for the info redundantly. | 17:33 |
| dwelsh | Sounds good to me. | 17:33 |
| aelkner | By info I mean: | 17:33 |
| dwelsh | It's the job of developers to implement and smartly and elegantly as possible | 17:33 |
| aelkner | What ZIS the schooltool instance is communicating with. | 17:33 |
| th1a | Well, TInyZIS is the one that works now. | 17:33 |
| aelkner | So that would go in the config page: TinyZis and its IP | 17:34 |
| aelkner | Then the dialog for the transfer would specify what to transfer. | 17:34 |
| aelkner | So that ought to be fleshed out in user stories of a more granular nature. | 17:35 |
| aelkner | Perhaps Paul would be the best person to come up with those as he has CanDo's skin in mind. | 17:36 |
| dwelsh | Users specify the data they want to transfer. | 17:36 |
| dwelsh | You give us a way to do it. | 17:36 |
| dwelsh | The data we want to transfer is there. | 17:36 |
| aelkner | Shall we break down an example? | 17:37 |
| dwelsh | Let's start by running a test to see if we can get one type of message out of one instance and into another | 17:37 |
| dwelsh | Then lets go for other message types. | 17:37 |
| dwelsh | Really, the data is not that voluminous, at least for starters | 17:37 |
| aelkner | I mean, verbally what the user does to complete a transfer. | 17:38 |
| aelkner | For example. person data? | 17:38 |
| dwelsh | Fine. | 17:38 |
| dwelsh | Export person data from one instance of CanDo into anther. | 17:38 |
| aelkner | Could we have a web page that allows the user to tell the ZIS that it provides person data? | 17:38 |
| aelkner | th1a: what interaction with the ZIS would filling out this page represent? | 17:39 |
| th1a | Sending a SIF_Provide message. | 17:40 |
| aelkner | Well, the agent would do that, yes. | 17:40 |
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| aelkner | ignas: please check my posting from yesterday. | 17:41 |
| th1a | This doesn't have to be very complicated, since we're only going to handle a few objects and messages at first. | 17:41 |
| ignas | aelkner: apt-get remove Zope3 | 17:41 |
| aelkner | Complicated, no, but specified on a granular level, yes. | 17:41 |
| aelkner | Before coding, one should have a plan as to pages, modules, etc. | 17:41 |
| aelkner | Is Paul going to do this? | 17:43 |
| dwelsh | I have a mtg. at 11am in another bldg. | 17:45 |
| dwelsh | Thanks Tom and Alan | 17:45 |
| aelkner | My point is that we have been discussing the broad stokes for some time now (I haven't been in the discussion since Feb.), but there needs to be more specifc plans for the pieces. | 17:45 |
| dwelsh | This has been helpful | 17:46 |
| dwelsh | I'll touch base with Will and Jeff about DC coordination | 17:46 |
| aelkner | Are Will and Jeff joining us at 11? | 17:46 |
| aelkner | Or is this meeting over? | 17:47 |
| aelkner | I need to discuss another problem with ignas, and I don't want to clutter this meeting. | 17:48 |
| aelkner | Hello? | 17:48 |
| ignas | yes? | 17:48 |
| dwelsh | ZIS-SIF mtg. is over. Thanks one and all. | 17:48 |
| th1a | Thanks dwelsh. | 17:49 |
| aelkner | ignas: why would I need to remove Zope 3 to get schooltool to work? I thought schooltool uses its own Zope 3 so that one could have Zope 3 for other projects and schooltool wouldn't care. | 17:50 |
| aelkner | It has worked that way until now. | 17:50 |
| ignas | eggs changed that | 17:50 |
| ignas | it is not fixed yet | 17:50 |
| ignas | different versions of Zope3 | 17:50 |
| ignas | etc. | 17:50 |
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| aelkner | What fix exactly is pending? | 17:50 |
| aelkner | Do the Zope folks need to get something fixed? | 17:51 |
| ignas | don't know yet, i guess patching python path in some way, while installing eggs, or when using | 17:51 |
| ignas | Zope folks would suggest you to use a different python instance | 17:51 |
| ignas | i guess | 17:52 |
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| aelkner | Hmm. | 17:52 |
| ignas | and anyway - are you using your ubuntu Zope3 install for anything? | 17:52 |
| aelkner | I installed Zope 3 at pycon using the svn checkout. | 17:52 |
| aelkner | Then I built a zope 3 instance in my home dir. | 17:53 |
| ignas | now you don't have to as we do not depend on zpkg | 17:53 |
| ignas | zpkg depended on ubuntu Zope3 | 17:53 |
| aelkner | I didn't use zpkg. | 17:54 |
| aelkner | I used svn checkout. | 17:54 |
| aelkner | And I always used the default python instance. | 17:55 |
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| wdickers | Sorry for my tardiness | 17:55 |
| ignas | i know, what i meant was - it's schooltool and ubuntu problem not zope3 one | 17:55 |
| aelkner | wdickers: you should check the log of the last hour. | 17:55 |
| ignas | and at the moment it can be sovled quite easily | 17:55 |
| ignas | uninstall zope3 | 17:55 |
| aelkner | Ok. So I'll get rid of zope 3 from my system for now. Then, I'll let you know if that fixes the problems I'm having. | 17:56 |
| ignas | ok | 17:57 |
| aelkner | ignas: I started from removing Zope 3 from my python path, and then I ran: | 18:00 |
| aelkner | python2.4 test.py -1fm cando.journal | 18:00 |
| aelkner | Traceback (most recent call last): | 18:00 |
| aelkner | File "test.py", line 30, in ? | 18:00 |
| aelkner | import pytz | 18:00 |
| aelkner | ImportError: No module named pytz | 18:00 |
| ignas | try "make test" | 18:01 |
| ignas | first | 18:01 |
| ignas | it should pull in missing dependencies | 18:01 |
| ignas | and sudo apt-get install python-tz if that won't help | 18:02 |
| aelkner | Is that in the instructions for installing schooltool? If not, it ought to be. | 18:03 |
| ignas | aelkner: you can update the documentation as you go | 18:05 |
| ignas | if the instructions will work | 18:05 |
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