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| * th1a shuffles some papers around. | 16:30 | |
| th1a | Hi jfroche_, ignas, Lumiere, jelkner. | 16:31 |
|---|---|---|
| ignas | hi | 16:31 |
| jfroche_ | hello | 16:31 |
| Lumiere | hi | 16:31 |
| th1a | My "working vacation" last week at my parents' became a bit less working and more vacation than I had planned. | 16:32 |
| th1a | But it looks like this summer will be really busy, so it might be the most I get. | 16:32 |
| th1a | Plus I wrote a keynote for the FOSSED conference in my head, so that was kind of work. | 16:32 |
| th1a | However, I'm still a little scattered, so this is updates and whatever you feel the need to discuss. | 16:33 |
| th1a | Plus jinty's email about packaging mochikit and optionstorage. | 16:34 |
| th1a | So... jfroche_ would you like to go first? | 16:34 |
| jfroche_ | yup | 16:34 |
| jfroche_ | i am useingthe gradebook & requirements | 16:35 |
| jfroche_ | to implements my need | 16:35 |
| jfroche_ | i had a little conversation with pcardune | 16:35 |
| jfroche_ | who read my analysis doc | 16:35 |
| jfroche_ | he said that the general overview of the doc fallows the same needs as him | 16:36 |
| jfroche_ | i just have some differences | 16:36 |
| jfroche_ | i need to contact him this week to speak more about this | 16:36 |
| th1a | What kind of differences? | 16:36 |
| jfroche_ | the way to handle the different kind of tests | 16:37 |
| jfroche_ | i have exams and daily work period | 16:37 |
| jfroche_ | what i am trying to do now is to define my vocabulary to see if it would be enough | 16:38 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:38 |
| jfroche_ | for that i am changing the doc test of the grade book | 16:38 |
| jfroche_ | i need to know from pcardune what are the actual difference from his needs to the trunk | 16:39 |
| jfroche_ | but the work of srichter there seems to be quite big | 16:39 |
| jfroche_ | of course the different view there doesn't apply to my stories, report | 16:39 |
| th1a | We were making progress until... | 16:39 |
| jfroche_ | but it seems that the basis for me are there | 16:40 |
| th1a | Yes, the underlying model should be sound. | 16:40 |
| jfroche_ | you worked the gradebook with stephan ? | 16:40 |
| th1a | Yes. | 16:41 |
| th1a | He lives in Boston so we could get together to work on it f2f. | 16:41 |
| jfroche_ | so as reading my doc you saw that my needs aren't really different from what you did there | 16:41 |
| jfroche_ | (except for the things i said) | 16:42 |
| th1a | Right. | 16:42 |
| Lumiere | I know that he's at FOSSED-NE | 16:42 |
| Lumiere | he's going up with the CanDo group to lead their sprint | 16:42 |
| th1a | That should be helpful. | 16:43 |
| jfroche_ | pcardune will be there ? | 16:43 |
| th1a | I think so. | 16:45 |
| th1a | jfroche_: Anything else? | 16:45 |
| jfroche_ | euh i got news from Nicolas | 16:45 |
| jfroche_ | we will meet together at the school to push them to use the actual state of schooltool cause they need to get use to it and hopefully show them some part of the in dev gradebook | 16:46 |
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| th1a | OK. Good. | 16:47 |
| th1a | Do you have a date? | 16:47 |
| jfroche_ | not yet but i think around mid june (after students exams) | 16:47 |
| jfroche_ | i ll push to get a date | 16:48 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:48 |
| th1a | Thanks jfroche_. Ignas? | 16:49 |
| ignas | not much, added a gradebook for a student that groups everything by Course | 16:50 |
| ignas | which was the tricky part (a student can attend multiple sections in the same course), but in the gradebook - there is no difference between marks | 16:50 |
| th1a | Ah. | 16:51 |
| ignas | could not meet with Bronius Skūpas last week as he was having Computer Science exams | 16:51 |
| ignas | having as in - responsible for | 16:51 |
| th1a | Yes. | 16:51 |
| th1a | It is a busy time of year. | 16:51 |
| ignas | yes .. | 16:51 |
| ignas | and added some missing tests to the existing journal views | 16:51 |
| ignas | i'll try to meet with Bronius as soon as possible | 16:52 |
| ignas | and discuss more things they want me to add to the gradebook | 16:52 |
| th1a | It is probably important to keep contact as school ends. | 16:52 |
| ignas | they will still have of months of lessons the last grade finishes early | 16:53 |
| ignas | because of all the exams | 16:53 |
| th1a | Oh. OK. | 16:54 |
| ignas | that's kind of everything | 16:54 |
| ignas | i am quite concentrated on gradebook at the moment | 16:54 |
| th1a | Concentration is good. Lumiere? | 16:54 |
| th1a | OK, we'll move on... | 16:57 |
| th1a | So jinty sent out an email about packaging dependencies. | 16:58 |
| th1a | The very good news is that he seems to be making a lot of progress. | 16:58 |
| th1a | The only snafus are finding reasonable versions of | 16:58 |
| th1a | * zope.optionstorage | 16:58 |
| th1a | * z3c.javascript.mochikit | 16:58 |
| th1a | Anyone have any insight into these? | 16:58 |
| th1a | What does optionstorage do? | 16:59 |
| th1a | mochikit is Ajax stuff. | 16:59 |
| ignas | hmm | 17:00 |
| ignas | optionstorage was packaged by me | 17:00 |
| ignas | as it was not released by Zopers | 17:00 |
| ignas | but they said they would accept my package | 17:00 |
| ignas | so i or someone else just has to package it properly and upload it to PyPI | 17:00 |
| Lumiere | his problem is that there doesn't seem to be a good release number | 17:00 |
| Lumiere | or it seemed to be | 17:01 |
| ignas | giving it the same number as the rest of Zope3.4 eggs would make sense | 17:01 |
| Lumiere | yea | 17:01 |
| th1a | Where do z3c packages come from? Zope Corp? | 17:02 |
| ignas | no | 17:03 |
| ignas | zope 3 comunity | 17:03 |
| ignas | zc are zope corp ones | 17:03 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:03 |
| jfroche_ | but these where done by pcardune on http://eggs.carduner.net/ no ? | 17:05 |
| ignas | and mochikit packages were created by pcardune weren't they | 17:05 |
| th1a | I was wondering exactly the same thing. | 17:05 |
| th1a | I think so. | 17:05 |
| th1a | I'll reply to jinty's email and ask pcardune. | 17:05 |
| th1a | OK... any last words? | 17:06 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:07 | |
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| th1a | Have a good week, folks! | 17:08 |
| Lumiere | back in a bit then ;) | 17:10 |
| Lumiere | just so everyone knows | 17:10 |
| Lumiere | CanDo's dev meeting is in 2 hours | 17:10 |
| Lumiere | (well 1 hour 50 minutes) | 17:10 |
| ignas | :) | 17:10 |
| Lumiere | and it'll be here | 17:10 |
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| jelkner | Lumiere: I've been trying to reach dave on x5735 all morning, but no luck | 17:51 |
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| Lumiere | jelkner: try now | 18:33 |
| * Lumiere starts up the generator | 18:33 | |
| Lumiere | 30 minutes to CanDo dev meeting | 18:33 |
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| Lumiere | CanDo Developer Meeting - Tuesday 29 May 2007 | 19:00 |
| Lumiere | --------------------------------------------- | 19:00 |
| Lumiere | User Stories - Updates and Confirmations | 19:00 |
| Lumiere | Bounties - Launchpad?/Procedure | 19:00 |
| jelkner | ok, it is 12 by my clock | 19:00 |
| jelkner | where is pcardune? | 19:00 |
| jelkner | should i call him? | 19:00 |
| Lumiere | yea | 19:00 |
| jelkner | ringing... | 19:01 |
| jelkner | i got his answering machine | 19:02 |
| Lumiere | k sec | 19:03 |
| jelkner | left a mean sounding message :-( | 19:03 |
| jelkner | we *need* to get it together | 19:03 |
| Lumiere | yea | 19:03 |
| jelkner | two weeks in a row that we don't have everyone together | 19:03 |
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| jelkner | i got him | 19:05 |
| Lumiere | ok | 19:05 |
| jelkner | he is logging on now | 19:05 |
| Lumiere | dwelsh is too | 19:05 |
| jelkner | good | 19:05 |
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| jelkner | still waiting for pcardune... | 19:08 |
| dwelsh | he's joining | 19:08 |
| dwelsh | just got him on his cell | 19:08 |
| jelkner | dwelsh: can you lead the first part of this discussion? | 19:09 |
| jelkner | since the most important topic is: how can we make dwelsh happy? | 19:09 |
| jelkner | and know one knows better than you! ;-) | 19:10 |
| dwelsh | right. always a top-priority topic | 19:10 |
| dwelsh | ask not what your country can do for you... | 19:10 |
| dwelsh | ask how you can make dwelsh happy! | 19:10 |
| dwelsh | Getting roles and tasks better defined will help us | 19:11 |
| Lumiere | lets wait a sec | 19:11 |
| Lumiere | and get pcardune in here | 19:11 |
| Lumiere | before we get this party really moving please | 19:11 |
| jelkner | pcardune is having trouble with connectivity | 19:11 |
| Lumiere | ok | 19:11 |
| Lumiere | this first conversation | 19:11 |
| jelkner | i am on the phone with him | 19:11 |
| jelkner | and will act as his proxy | 19:11 |
| Lumiere | ok | 19:11 |
| jelkner | let's begin | 19:11 |
| Lumiere | then for those of you who were late... | 19:11 |
| Lumiere | User Stories - Updates and Confirmations | 19:12 |
| Lumiere | dwelsh... | 19:12 |
| aelkner | do we have a url with the user stories? | 19:12 |
| Lumiere | dwelsh put it in a google doc, he's going to move it over today | 19:12 |
| dwelsh | There is an overview doc on Google docs | 19:12 |
| Lumiere | to the trac wiki | 19:12 |
| dwelsh | yes, but we're moving it to the wiki | 19:13 |
| Lumiere | aelkner: that a good start? | 19:14 |
| dwelsh | yes, it's a very good start | 19:14 |
| jelkner | so what do you have for pcardune? | 19:14 |
| dwelsh | I'm publishing it publicly now | 19:14 |
| aelkner | I was just curious to see everything. I'm currently working on one that Paul gave me, but I wanted to see the bigger picture. | 19:14 |
| * Lumiere will speak for dwelsh for a sec he can correct if he needs | 19:15 | |
| dwelsh | http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dhn5b8fd_7dd4k9m | 19:15 |
| Lumiere | We have a list of user stories *see link above* | 19:15 |
| dwelsh | That's the bigger picture. | 19:15 |
| jelkner | so, what do you have for pcardune? | 19:15 |
| dwelsh | The UserStories (blueprints) are basically in prioritized order | 19:15 |
| dwelsh | I need to know from developers if you need more specificity from me | 19:16 |
| aelkner | Cool. | 19:16 |
| dwelsh | Then I'll work with Jason to create more specific user stories on our wiki | 19:16 |
| dwelsh | much as we did with resource management | 19:16 |
| dwelsh | My main concern: I want to see the code move along | 19:16 |
| dwelsh | The bugs related to journaling were out and well defined for May sprint | 19:17 |
| dwelsh | but nothing got fixed/posted | 19:17 |
| dwelsh | why not? | 19:17 |
| Lumiere | jelkner: that's for pcardune | 19:17 |
| jelkner | pcardune says "because everyone was screwing around with the older version..." | 19:17 |
| jelkner | "I don't know why that happened" | 19:18 |
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| pcardune | hi everybody | 19:18 |
| Lumiere | hi | 19:18 |
| dwelsh | hey | 19:18 |
| aelkner | hello | 19:18 |
| Lumiere | that's partially my issue, but it had positives | 19:18 |
| Lumiere | because we found out that the 2006 branch needs to be fixed for it's next release | 19:19 |
| Lumiere | right now bugs are still on 2006 | 19:19 |
| pcardune | I think the lesson we learned from the last sprint is that everyone needs to have a working environment prior to starting the sprint | 19:19 |
| Lumiere | yes | 19:19 |
| pcardune | this is one way that having installed nx is going to help a lot | 19:19 |
| aelkner | nx? | 19:20 |
| Lumiere | remote x | 19:20 |
| pcardune | if people don't have things set up on their local machines correctly, they can just jump on maddog | 19:20 |
| Lumiere | like vnc | 19:20 |
| Lumiere | I will be right back... I have a pair of computers down here | 19:22 |
| jelkner | what? | 19:22 |
| jelkner | let's move this along | 19:22 |
| jelkner | dwelsh: you should take the lead on this | 19:23 |
| jelkner | what do you want to happen now? | 19:23 |
| dwelsh | Do we have the infrastructure in place to support the project? | 19:23 |
| jelkner | yes | 19:23 |
| dwelsh | Is there anything else we need to do? | 19:23 |
| dwelsh | Why was it not in place in May? | 19:23 |
| pcardune | here was the problem in may | 19:23 |
| jelkner | i'm still confused about the 06 vs. 07 issue | 19:23 |
| pcardune | someone wanted to have bugs fixed for 06 | 19:23 |
| dwelsh | welsh wants journaling bugs fixed in 06 | 19:24 |
| jelkner | bad move to do that with interns | 19:24 |
| pcardune | so everyone thought they had to then install 06 to fix the bugs | 19:24 |
| jelkner | yes, but not by interns at a sprint | 19:24 |
| jelkner | this is what we talked about this morning | 19:24 |
| pcardune | the problem with this was that third party egg dependencies broke the 06 package | 19:24 |
| dwelsh | don't you guys have 06 up somewhere? | 19:24 |
| jelkner | we need a clear procedure that avoids confusion | 19:25 |
| dwelsh | Shouldn't it run off of a server? | 19:25 |
| dwelsh | not locally? | 19:25 |
| pcardune | dwelsh yes, but you can't have multiple people fixing bugs using the same code base | 19:25 |
| jelkner | at least 1 week *before* june 16 | 19:25 |
| dwelsh | OK, I get that | 19:25 |
| jelkner | we need a list of goals for the sprint | 19:25 |
| jelkner | so we can discuss them, make plans and adjustments, and be ready for the interns | 19:25 |
| dwelsh | We also need to more clearly define roles and responsibilities | 19:25 |
| jelkner | we spent all morning sitting around not doing anything | 19:26 |
| jelkner | yes | 19:26 |
| jelkner | i sent out an email with a proposal | 19:26 |
| dwelsh | I look at pcardune and eldar to have an overview of all bugs and blueprints | 19:26 |
| dwelsh | I expect them also to have a sense of who can do what | 19:26 |
| jelkner | dwelsh: it is important that you assume the role of top dog in all this | 19:26 |
| pcardune | when I came to the sprint around 8am my time I was asked to solve this problem with installing 06 without really knowing why people were using 06 at all. I should have asked first | 19:26 |
| dwelsh | I then expect them to assign the right problems to the right people | 19:26 |
| dwelsh | Am I missing something? | 19:26 |
| pcardune | dwelsh no, that is how it should work | 19:27 |
| dwelsh | I guess Jeff is right... interns should ONLY work on 07 | 19:27 |
| Lumiere | I think having the pre-sprint meeting is good, we should know what people will be assigned/working on before we start | 19:27 |
| jelkner | i would say there was a break down in communication between dwelsh and pcardune prior to the sprint | 19:27 |
| dwelsh | it's a waste of time getting them up on the last version | 19:27 |
| pcardune | you'll notice that when I got there, within 30 minutes everyone was working on something | 19:27 |
| dwelsh | it's enough for them to tackle the new stuff | 19:27 |
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| Lumiere | I disagree to some point... | 19:28 |
| jelkner | pcardune: yes, but we start several hours before you get there | 19:28 |
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| pcardune | jelkner right, hence the need for pre-sprint meetings | 19:28 |
| Lumiere | the priorities are the priorities... there needs to be a point where a 2006 bug | 19:28 |
| jelkner | indeed | 19:28 |
| Lumiere | is more important then anything at all in 2007 | 19:28 |
| jelkner | Lumiere: *not* at a sprint! | 19:28 |
| Lumiere | we have users... that we are serving | 19:28 |
| jelkner | you miss the point of what the sprints are for | 19:29 |
| jelkner | with unrealistic plans, we fail | 19:29 |
| jelkner | pcardune and eldar should be given the 06 bugs | 19:29 |
| jelkner | not new people who are are struggling to learn | 19:29 |
| dwelsh | jelkner: how do you want 06 bugs handled? | 19:29 |
| jelkner | eldar and pcardune | 19:30 |
| jelkner | when aelkner thinks he is ready, they can pawn stuff off on him | 19:30 |
| dwelsh | ok. those bugs were up and defined. | 19:30 |
| jelkner | until then, the most critical things need to be theirs | 19:30 |
| dwelsh | do I need to do something to get them up and working on them? | 19:30 |
| jelkner | regular communication with pcardune | 19:31 |
| jelkner | you two used to have weekly meetings of your own | 19:31 |
| jelkner | you probably should do that | 19:31 |
| pcardune | have us not spend all our time managing/helping interns | 19:31 |
| dwelsh | so that's an easy fix. | 19:31 |
| Lumiere | that's why I am here | 19:31 |
| Lumiere | my job should be a lot of the managing of interns | 19:31 |
| dwelsh | CanDo is my top priority from now until August 20 | 19:31 |
| pcardune | Lumiere but you can't help them, and do not know what stuff they can work on | 19:31 |
| dwelsh | I'm here to meet, clarify, talk, etc. | 19:31 |
| jelkner | can i take a minute to address pcardune's last comment? | 19:32 |
| dwelsh | go ahead | 19:32 |
| Lumiere | pcardune: but If we meet 1 time a week, and figure out who can do what | 19:32 |
| jelkner | we have know since the beginning that we have a delicate trade off we are attempting to balance | 19:32 |
| Lumiere | and I have that info | 19:32 |
| Lumiere | I can give things out off lists | 19:32 |
| jelkner | we need to expand the developer group | 19:32 |
| jelkner | and we need pcardune and eldar to help with that | 19:33 |
| jelkner | and we also need to leave them time to work | 19:33 |
| jelkner | i think the best strategy is this: | 19:33 |
| jelkner | 1. identify the new developers most likely to be able to contribute soon | 19:33 |
| jelkner | 2. focus our energy on getting them productive | 19:34 |
| jelkner | 3. allow me and wdickerso to work with the other interns on less critical projects | 19:35 |
| jelkner | that is how i would strike the balance | 19:35 |
| jelkner | so who are the folks most likely to be able to contribute soon? | 19:36 |
| pcardune | Andrew | 19:36 |
| pcardune | Filip | 19:36 |
| jelkner | 1. andrew rodriguez | 19:36 |
| jelkner | 2. filip | 19:36 |
| jelkner | 3. alan | 19:36 |
| aelkner | Myself, I would prefer to contribute by handling project work and not mentoring students as I did last time, at least in the beginning. | 19:36 |
| jelkner | 4. mitchell? | 19:36 |
| pcardune | not mitchell | 19:36 |
| jelkner | ok | 19:36 |
| jelkner | whadden? | 19:37 |
| jelkner | robbie? | 19:37 |
| pcardune | I would say those 3 are at the top of the list for serious contributions | 19:37 |
| pcardune | and that is it | 19:37 |
| jelkner | ok, are all 3 of them working? | 19:37 |
| pcardune | those are the three that I get emails from with questions on a regular basis | 19:37 |
| pcardune | yes | 19:38 |
| jelkner | good | 19:38 |
| jelkner | then who is next? | 19:38 |
| pcardune | the SEPG folks | 19:38 |
| jelkner | it can be my job to push the next tier of folks to be more responsive | 19:38 |
| jelkner | they are doing great, but they have their project already | 19:38 |
| pcardune | they actually could be put in the top three | 19:39 |
| jelkner | yes, except they won't be working on other stuff for the present | 19:39 |
| pcardune | so the next group is just everyone else | 19:39 |
| jelkner | "everyone else" is not concrete enough | 19:39 |
| jelkner | we need to talk about who is at the top of "everyone else" | 19:39 |
| jelkner | so i can focus my effort on getting them more involved immediately | 19:40 |
| pcardune | robbie | 19:40 |
| pcardune | I' | 19:40 |
| pcardune | ve got him working on stuff as well | 19:40 |
| jelkner | good | 19:40 |
| aelkner | by the way, how should the three of us work, namely, paired with other people or with each other? | 19:40 |
| pcardune | but haven't heard much from him | 19:40 |
| jelkner | i'll follow up with him then | 19:41 |
| pcardune | aelkner, however it is that you are working right now (because that way seems to be working) | 19:41 |
| aelkner | I was refering to the sprints. | 19:41 |
| pcardune | the same way at the sprints | 19:42 |
| pcardune | it takes too much time for people to get up to speed on what other people are doing | 19:42 |
| jelkner | aelkner: you played a really good role at the last sprint | 19:42 |
| aelkner | yeh, but I didn;'t get any work done of my own. | 19:43 |
| jelkner | it is important to use sprint time to help the newer developers | 19:43 |
| aelkner | but i'm one of them :) | 19:43 |
| pcardune | see, this is exactly the problem, are sprints for new developers? or for actually getting work done? | 19:43 |
| jelkner | true, but you told me yourself you learned a lot from helping other folks | 19:43 |
| pcardune | because those things can not be combined | 19:43 |
| aelkner | paul's right. | 19:44 |
| jelkner | the monthly sprints have been for training | 19:44 |
| jelkner | if you want to change that, we should tell the new folks not to come | 19:44 |
| pcardune | ok, good... then I don't have to feel bad about not fixing the 06 bugs during the sprint | 19:44 |
| aelkner | it's a good idea to nail down the role of the sprints. | 19:44 |
| jelkner | not at all | 19:44 |
| jelkner | fixing 06 bugs during the sprint was a bad idea | 19:44 |
| dwelsh | and having interns fix them definitely was not the right idea | 19:45 |
| jelkner | correct | 19:45 |
| Lumiere | I completely disagree... the bugs came up just before the sprint | 19:45 |
| dwelsh | so we need to GO IN with a better plan | 19:45 |
| Lumiere | and they were the highest priority of the day | 19:45 |
| jelkner | Lumiere: bad idea | 19:45 |
| pcardune | but sprints are not supposed to be like average work days | 19:45 |
| pcardune | that is why we call them sprints | 19:45 |
| jelkner | and the fact that it didn't work demonstrates that | 19:45 |
| Lumiere | jelkner: it's a bad idea for them to get pushed off | 19:45 |
| dwelsh | yes, jelkner is right | 19:46 |
| dwelsh | Paul, Straw and Welsh should have connected before that sprint | 19:46 |
| jelkner | again, we are balancing two needs | 19:46 |
| dwelsh | One problem with those sprints is that paul is not around when they start | 19:46 |
| jelkner | to grow our development team and to get work done | 19:46 |
| Lumiere | jelkner: you're pushing the balance too far to 07 | 19:46 |
| dwelsh | so we are proxying for him | 19:46 |
| dwelsh | we have to all have the same plan | 19:46 |
| jelkner | no, i am handling my main responsibilty: growing the new developers | 19:46 |
| jelkner | you should be working with pcardune and eldar to get 06 stuff fixed | 19:47 |
| jelkner | not trying to take newbies and ask them to do it | 19:47 |
| jelkner | it won't work | 19:47 |
| Lumiere | fine | 19:47 |
| aelkner | but not during the sprint... | 19:47 |
| Lumiere | that doesn't mean it shouldn't happen on a sprint day | 19:47 |
| jelkner | exactly | 19:47 |
| Lumiere | just that it shouldn't have been done with interns | 19:47 |
| Lumiere | I'll live with that | 19:47 |
| jelkner | yes it does | 19:47 |
| aelkner | I'd say don't do it at all during the sprint. | 19:47 |
| jelkner | i agree | 19:48 |
| pcardune | but who is going to do it on a sprint day? | 19:48 |
| aelkner | Paul and Eldar's attention should be available for the interns. | 19:48 |
| dwelsh | what is paul supposed to be doing on the sprint day? | 19:48 |
| Lumiere | pcardune is pretty good | 19:48 |
| dwelsh | and Eldar too, for that matter | 19:48 |
| Lumiere | at juggling some code | 19:48 |
| jelkner | it should not be done on the sprint day | 19:48 |
| Lumiere | with helping people | 19:48 |
| aelkner | More of what I was doing... | 19:48 |
| pcardune | helping interns | 19:48 |
| jelkner | we shouldn't really even call these things sprints | 19:48 |
| jelkner | that may be part of the problem | 19:48 |
| pcardune | but i do much better overall if I focus one thing at a time | 19:48 |
| dwelsh | gotcha. so paul should probably NOT be working 06 bugs during the sprint day | 19:48 |
| jelkner | since december they have been about training | 19:48 |
| jelkner | not developing | 19:49 |
| jelkner | we can't do both | 19:49 |
| aelkner | dwelsh: I'd say so. | 19:49 |
| jelkner | and training has been the focus | 19:49 |
| jelkner | otherwise, we need to tell the interns to stay home | 19:49 |
| jelkner | which doesn't make sense | 19:49 |
| jelkner | we either are prepared to help them, or they shouldn't come | 19:49 |
| aelkner | developing now is an extension of training if Paul and Eldar are available. | 19:49 |
| jelkner | yes | 19:50 |
| jelkner | if we choose topics carefully | 19:50 |
| jelkner | not critical things but things that interns can work on | 19:50 |
| Lumiere | jelkner: you specificallly need to be more careful about naming things | 19:50 |
| jelkner | then development work can happen at oour "sprints" | 19:50 |
| Lumiere | stop calling them sprints if they're not | 19:50 |
| jelkner | but nothing critical should happen there | 19:50 |
| Lumiere | they're trainings | 19:50 |
| aelkner | there's nothing wrong with calling them sprints. | 19:51 |
| jelkner | and certainly not things that are difficult to do | 19:51 |
| aelkner | They just need to be focused | 19:51 |
| aelkner | And it looks like they are coming into focus. | 19:51 |
| aelkner | No 06 bugs | 19:51 |
| dwelsh | gotcha | 19:51 |
| dwelsh | there's very little 06 left | 19:51 |
| pcardune | it is easier to focus when everyone hass the conception that we are doing training | 19:51 |
| aelkner | Lots of Paul and Eldar time for new projects that are handled by the interns. | 19:51 |
| jelkner | yes | 19:52 |
| pcardune | calling is a training day makes that easy for everyone to remember | 19:52 |
| jelkner | and aelkner's too | 19:52 |
| jelkner | fine with me | 19:52 |
| dwelsh | will the monthly training days run over the summer? | 19:52 |
| jelkner | we should choose projects and make work assignment *before* the training day | 19:53 |
| aelkner | I would recommend that. | 19:53 |
| dwelsh | or is it all about Tues and Thurs pm | 19:53 |
| jelkner | yes | 19:53 |
| dwelsh | OK then. one training day a month | 19:53 |
| jelkner | hold on | 19:53 |
| jelkner | let me think about that | 19:53 |
| jelkner | actually, every tuesday and thursday from 1 to 6 is training | 19:53 |
| aelkner | There's plenty of time for Paul and Eldar (and eventually me) to handle 06 bugs outside of the trainging days. | 19:53 |
| aelkner | So all meetings involving students should be considered training days. | 19:54 |
| jelkner | it would actually be better if we leave the interns out of saturdays during the summer | 19:54 |
| Lumiere | I am very much against every 'work' day being training time | 19:54 |
| jelkner | then we could have a july sprint, and make it a real sprint | 19:54 |
| jelkner | Lumiere: then you don't understand what we are doing | 19:55 |
| Lumiere | jelkner: both dwelsh and I have wildly different views | 19:55 |
| jelkner | an internship is all about training | 19:55 |
| dwelsh | welsh doesn't understand either, then | 19:55 |
| jelkner | it can't be any other way | 19:55 |
| Lumiere | of what the monthly saturdays and work days are for | 19:55 |
| dwelsh | aren't Tues and Thurs supposed to be time for productive developers? | 19:55 |
| Lumiere | we expect shit to get done on these days | 19:55 |
| aelkner | Paul and Eldar don't nbeed students to handle 06 bugs, so why address them when the students are around? | 19:55 |
| Lumiere | not to hand hold | 19:55 |
| jelkner | in the 3 years we have been doing this, we have *never* got productive work from our interns | 19:55 |
| jelkner | zope 3 is hard to learn | 19:56 |
| jelkner | we are investing in them | 19:56 |
| dwelsh | isn't that supposed to change with our new training approach? | 19:56 |
| jelkner | this year is the best year ever | 19:56 |
| dwelsh | right | 19:56 |
| aelkner | right, for the future. | 19:56 |
| jelkner | we may actually get something usable from them | 19:56 |
| jelkner | but not without help | 19:56 |
| Lumiere | ok it's been an hour | 19:56 |
| jelkner | so training and working are the same thing | 19:56 |
| Lumiere | we still have something left on the agenda | 19:56 |
| Lumiere | I hate to cut this off... but continue it on the cando-dev list | 19:56 |
| jelkner | tuesdays and thursdays eldar and paul need to be available to help interns with their work | 19:57 |
| dwelsh | training and working should not be the same thing | 19:57 |
| jelkner | *that* is how we train them | 19:57 |
| dwelsh | skill-driver vs. project | 19:57 |
| Lumiere | Bounties - Launchpad?/Procedure... pcardune and jelkner | 19:57 |
| dwelsh | skill-driver is training; project is paid work | 19:57 |
| dwelsh | foundational vs. primary research | 19:57 |
| dwelsh | just like TJ does it | 19:57 |
| pcardune | eldar said he was looking into putting bounties on launchpad | 19:58 |
| aelkner | May I recommend a meeting the day before the sprint in addition to the regular Tuesday meeting? I think if we have one the day before we will have a fresh picture come Sat. of what we want to do. | 19:59 |
| Lumiere | we already are planning to do that | 19:59 |
| Lumiere | but the meeting is just going to be paul, me, welsh, eldar | 19:59 |
| aelkner | I might as well be there since I'm helping th interns, too. | 19:59 |
| Lumiere | ok | 19:59 |
| pcardune | so are we done here? any other discussion can take place on cando-dev? | 20:00 |
| Lumiere | Bounties - Launchpad?/Procedure | 20:00 |
| pcardune | like I said, eldar is looking into bounties on LP | 20:00 |
| Lumiere | this is a jelkner dwelsh shindig for you to talk throgh | 20:01 |
| Lumiere | I need to get them off the phone first | 20:01 |
| pcardune | I believe there was already an email about that procedure | 20:01 |
| pcardune | it being: | 20:02 |
| Lumiere | but part of it is | 20:02 |
| Lumiere | the technology it gets stored in | 20:02 |
| pcardune | 1. dwelsh chooses user stories | 20:02 |
| pcardune | I give user stories bounties | 20:02 |
| jelkner | pcardune: can you send dwelsh and i a summary of what aelkner, andrew, and filip are doing? | 20:02 |
| pcardune | sure | 20:03 |
| Lumiere | in the future | 20:03 |
| aelkner | jelkner: please use "me" an not "i" for the accusative :) | 20:03 |
| Lumiere | these should be put into the dev meeting | 20:03 |
| pcardune | and once eldar figures out how to do this on LP, we will do it on LP | 20:04 |
| Lumiere | pcardune: we had a chat on bounties because we have a feeling it doesn't match what jelkner wants | 20:04 |
| aelkner | what's that? | 20:05 |
| Lumiere | that LP's bounty system | 20:05 |
| aelkner | i see. | 20:05 |
| Lumiere | doesn't match what jelkner thought the bounty system should be for CanDo | 20:05 |
| Lumiere | ok | 20:07 |
| Lumiere | I'm gonna drop the gravel and end this... | 20:07 |
| Lumiere | we'll get back to people if we have other things to talk about | 20:07 |
| aelkner | It looks like people have left already, so consider it dropped... | 20:08 |
| Lumiere | yea | 20:08 |
| pcardune | ok | 20:08 |
| * Lumiere shuts down the generator | 20:08 | |
| th1a | Hm. I had convinced myself that this meeting started at 1:00. | 20:09 |
| Lumiere | heh | 20:10 |
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| Lumiere | th1a: check the topic lately? :) | 20:29 |
| th1a | Lumiere: I did. At 1:00. | 20:30 |
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