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| * th1a shuffles some papers around. | 16:29 | |
| ignas | th1a: hi | 16:29 |
|---|---|---|
| th1a | It looks like they won't be tearing my copper wires out 'til noon, so we should be fine. | 16:30 |
| th1a | ignas: hi. | 16:30 |
| ignas | :) | 16:30 |
| th1a | jfroche: Hi. | 16:30 |
| jfroche | hello there | 16:30 |
| jfroche | :) | 16:30 |
| th1a | So... tell me about the Brussels Summit. | 16:31 |
| jfroche | was really really really nice to have Ignas nearby | 16:31 |
| jfroche | learnt a lot of things | 16:31 |
| jfroche | hope that we will be able to do it again soon | 16:32 |
| jfroche | we went mainly into Person | 16:32 |
| jfroche | but encountered many problems regarding the customization of a Person | 16:33 |
| jfroche | & solve one problem i had with ressources linked to the onlinehelp | 16:33 |
| th1a | So what's the status of onlinehelp now? | 16:34 |
| th1a | i18n ready? | 16:34 |
| ignas | i think so | 16:35 |
| ignas | if those who will write docs will use pt templates | 16:35 |
| th1a | That's the only catch ;-) | 16:36 |
| th1a | How is that different than XHTML in practice? | 16:36 |
| th1a | In this case. | 16:36 |
| th1a | (I know how it is different in general) | 16:37 |
| jfroche | just use the right template | 16:37 |
| jfroche | and thats ok | 16:37 |
| jfroche | but after that the user has to register the page into zcml | 16:37 |
| jfroche | which is kind of non user job | 16:37 |
| th1a | Right. | 16:37 |
| jfroche | so i was looking at a solution so register all pt in all packages having a help folder | 16:38 |
| th1a | So if a non-coder writes an HTML help page, it is easy enough to add whatever templating is necessary? | 16:38 |
| jfroche | right | 16:38 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:38 |
| jfroche | a few lines to add | 16:38 |
| jfroche | and now you the menu on the left | 16:38 |
| jfroche | so if you are looking at help about person you can link to the other help files on the left | 16:39 |
| th1a | Ah so the user can navigate through help files? | 16:40 |
| jfroche | right | 16:40 |
| th1a | That's good. | 16:40 |
| th1a | Is that in the trunk now? | 16:40 |
| jfroche | in my branch for the moment | 16:40 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:41 |
| jfroche | wanted to have green light to put it in trunk | 16:41 |
| th1a | I'll take a look at it. | 16:41 |
| jfroche | it's on the vauban branch | 16:41 |
| th1a | So what happened with the Person work? | 16:42 |
| ignas | well: | 16:42 |
| ignas | 1. we started using zc.table for some views (relationship editing) | 16:42 |
| ignas | then we wanted to add a new kind of person | 16:43 |
| ignas | which required rewriting some parts of person factory registration as local utilities + subscribers were not working out | 16:43 |
| ignas | after that we added a new kind of person, which kind of worked but was way too difficult for my taste ... | 16:44 |
| ignas | i mean it was like 200 lines of python + 130 lines of zcml | 16:44 |
| ignas | just to remove everything except for nameinfo+ schooldata and have them without some fields ... | 16:44 |
| th1a | What do you mean by a new kind of person? | 16:44 |
| ignas | lyceum person | 16:44 |
| ignas | with narrowed down demographics ... | 16:44 |
| ignas | we don't really want that much info in there ... | 16:45 |
| th1a | Understood. | 16:45 |
| jfroche | (i ll need another kind of person too without the different demographics and maybe with other fields) | 16:45 |
| th1a | Right. | 16:45 |
| th1a | Was it difficult because of how the demographics package was implemented? | 16:45 |
| ignas | yes | 16:45 |
| th1a | Well, keep in mind that at this point nothing is sacred. | 16:46 |
| ignas | we also worked on problems with i18n of the date widget and online help resources | 16:46 |
| ignas | th1a: i know, i am thinking of a way to fix things ... | 16:46 |
| th1a | If something needs to be ripped out to simplify, rip it out. | 16:46 |
| th1a | If it is too difficult for your tastes, it is too difficult, period. | 16:47 |
| ignas | indeed, i found myself very frustrated with some parts of zcml that just had to be copy and pasted to get it working | 16:47 |
| th1a | zcml hasn't been getting much love in general lately. | 16:48 |
| th1a | So you at least ended up with the Person you wanted? | 16:48 |
| jfroche | it's really nice code but it seems to me that the one who wrote the architecture around Person never tried to implement another kind of Person | 16:49 |
| ignas | yes, but i was unable to fix some functional tests ... which is a problem of either the way persons are made, or the schooltool test runner ... | 16:49 |
| ignas | i don't know which one of these is easier to fix ... | 16:49 |
| th1a | I hate those dilemmas. | 16:51 |
| ignas | well, it's a technical so it's up to me to decide ;) | 16:51 |
| th1a | I'm not stepping into it. | 16:51 |
| th1a | jfroche: So what did you learn? | 16:52 |
| jfroche | a lot of zope3 stuff | 16:52 |
| jfroche | history about some implementations | 16:53 |
| jfroche | someignas way of coding | 16:53 |
| th1a | Do you feel more capable of diving into SchoolTool on your own? | 16:54 |
| jfroche | yes but i need still to learn | 16:54 |
| jfroche | i feel some part over generalized | 16:55 |
| th1a | Yes, it is a steep curve, unfortunately. | 16:55 |
| th1a | Some parts of your understanding are too general? | 16:55 |
| jfroche | and sometimes not really aware on how to do things without breaking and keep things nice | 16:55 |
| jfroche | mean that schooltool is full of very nice peace of code, taking a lot of usecase in mind but to override these peace to my sauce ... | 16:56 |
| jfroche | it seems sometimes hard | 16:57 |
| th1a | Ah. | 16:57 |
| th1a | Right. | 16:57 |
| th1a | The implementation is general and it doesn't fit your specific case. | 16:57 |
| jfroche | not always and change it isn't always so easy | 16:58 |
| th1a | It is important for us to be getting first hand experience with this. | 16:58 |
| jfroche | mean that without a zope3 programmer skills, schooltool can't be deployed yet | 16:59 |
| th1a | Because making something that can be reasonably modified is probably more important than trying to make something that encompasses every case. | 16:59 |
| th1a | jfroche: Yes. That's where we're stuck. | 16:59 |
| th1a | I'd be happy getting to the point where just an average Python hacker could make small modifications. | 17:00 |
| jfroche | user shouldn't have to dig into zcml, nor into python | 17:00 |
| jfroche | simple config file should help | 17:00 |
| th1a | jfroche: Ultimately, yes. | 17:00 |
| jfroche | and schooltool config file is really small there | 17:01 |
| ignas | in a year or two, maybe | 17:01 |
| ignas | now even with zope3 skills - you can't deploy it ;) | 17:01 |
| jfroche | ignas told me that before you were generating zcml from config file ? | 17:01 |
| ignas | no, not from config file | 17:01 |
| ignas | just generating i think | 17:01 |
| ignas | can't remember why ;) | 17:01 |
| th1a | So... do you know what you need to work on next, jfroche? | 17:03 |
| jfroche | my next point are: having a good system to help Denis, Nicolas to translate schooltool | 17:03 |
| jfroche | and have a system to not force them writting zcml when they write new help file | 17:04 |
| jfroche | i spoke with Denis today | 17:04 |
| jfroche | about the authorization | 17:04 |
| th1a | OK. So not using Rosetta? | 17:04 |
| th1a | How's that coming? | 17:05 |
| jfroche | he still have no news ... | 17:05 |
| jfroche | schoolmaster is ill now | 17:05 |
| jfroche | i told him again about the fact that if we don't have news we might have to look elsewhere | 17:05 |
| jfroche | he asked me to wait 1 more week | 17:06 |
| jfroche | but he understand | 17:06 |
| jfroche | so if we don't have the news i ll begin to knock at other school's door | 17:06 |
| th1a | OK. But La Futaie is set? | 17:06 |
| jfroche | no neither | 17:07 |
| jfroche | same problem | 17:07 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:07 |
| jfroche | i ll phone Nicolas now | 17:07 |
| th1a | I'll send them an email, too. | 17:08 |
| jfroche | thanks | 17:08 |
| th1a | So you're working up something to do translation without using Rosetta? | 17:08 |
| jfroche | right because i have the same problem as ignas | 17:09 |
| th1a | Which is? | 17:10 |
| jfroche | not having a search is problematic | 17:10 |
| *** Lumiere has left #schooltool | 17:11 | |
| jfroche | the search problem | 17:11 |
| th1a | Hm... | 17:11 |
| th1a | Should we ask Steve about this? | 17:11 |
| ignas | not much steve can do ... | 17:11 |
| ignas | it's in their TODO list for like 2 years | 17:12 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:12 |
| th1a | Isn't there another existing app we can use? | 17:12 |
| jfroche | i ll use the same one as ignas i think | 17:12 |
| th1a | I hate to spend time on this kind of infrastructure if we can avoid it. | 17:12 |
| ignas | pootle | 17:13 |
| th1a | OK, so you're not talking about writing something new. | 17:13 |
| ignas | th1a: http://licejus.pov.lt/translate/ | 17:13 |
| jfroche | no not at all using an existing tool | 17:13 |
| th1a | OK. Sorry. Got confused about your intentions. | 17:14 |
| jfroche | and upload is still not available on rosetta (https://translations.launchpad.net/products/schooltool/main/+pots/schooltool/fr/+upload) | 17:14 |
| th1a | That's fine then. | 17:14 |
| th1a | ingas: What are your plans for the week? | 17:15 |
| ignas | th1a: make i18n on datetimewidget work, make a plan+work on the person, continue working on the timetable events | 17:17 |
| th1a | OK. It would be good to get the timetable events settled since the CanDo folks want to start working on calendar-related stuff. | 17:18 |
| ignas | oh, and i should talk to pcardune about timetable events as well | 17:19 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:20 |
| th1a | I'm going to be working on my generic SIF agent. | 17:20 |
| th1a | ignas: We're going to need an explanation of how to run SchoolTool with ZEO. | 17:20 |
| ignas | emm, it's like 5 lines of config and 1 command to launch the ZEO server | 17:21 |
| th1a | I didn't think it would be much. | 17:21 |
| ignas | i can paste them now if you want | 17:21 |
| th1a | Can you email them? | 17:21 |
| ignas | ok | 17:21 |
| th1a | All right, anything else? | 17:22 |
| th1a | How often would you guys like to meet up next year? | 17:22 |
| th1a | Optimally? | 17:22 |
| ignas | hmm | 17:23 |
| jfroche | for me ? every month :) | 17:24 |
| jfroche | learning curve is less steep with ignas next to me | 17:24 |
| th1a | Well, maybe I should propose every month for the first four of 2007, or something like that. | 17:25 |
| th1a | Then every two months. | 17:25 |
| ignas | that might work | 17:25 |
| th1a | I'll be working on the budget. | 17:26 |
| jfroche | ok | 17:26 |
| th1a | I'm stalling a little because I'd like to have the schools settled. | 17:26 |
| jfroche | so do i | 17:26 |
| th1a | All right. I think we're done here. | 17:26 |
| th1a | I'm going to see what's going on in the house here. I've got people working on three different things at once. | 17:27 |
| ignas | :) | 17:27 |
| th1a | Have a good week! | 17:27 |
| jfroche | :) good luck :) | 17:27 |
| th1a | Glad the trip last week was a success. | 17:27 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:27 | |
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| Lumiere | good afternoon everyone | 19:56 |
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| th1a | Hi. | 20:00 |
| jelkner | hi tom | 20:00 |
| jelkner | i talked to dave this morning, and i'm hoping he will be here | 20:01 |
| Lumiere | hi elkner... | 20:01 |
| th1a | I'll probably disappear here at some point. They're going to turn off my copper phone wire and turn on the fiber optic. | 20:01 |
| Lumiere | he's about to log on | 20:01 |
| th1a | Fiber to the home, baby! | 20:01 |
| Lumiere | th1a: going FiOS? | 20:01 |
| jelkner | rock on! | 20:01 |
| th1a | FiOS, mofo! | 20:01 |
| Lumiere | I've been on FiOS for a couple years here | 20:01 |
| jelkner | ok, you two are scaring me ;-) | 20:01 |
| Lumiere | it ROCKS mah SOCKS :) | 20:01 |
| jelkner | what is FiOS? | 20:01 |
| th1a | Really. I thought I was the first. | 20:01 |
| jelkner | and what is mofo? | 20:01 |
| Lumiere | Verizon's Fiber to the House solution | 20:01 |
| th1a | uh... motherfucker? | 20:02 |
| jelkner | i see | 20:02 |
| Lumiere | things that shouldn't be on school computers ;) | 20:02 |
| jelkner | sorry i asked | 20:02 |
| Lumiere | lol | 20:02 |
| th1a | Hopefully your school's filter caught that. | 20:02 |
| Lumiere | th1a: my corner of the DC area was one of the beta test area | 20:02 |
| th1a | Ah. | 20:02 |
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| Lumiere | we're at 5/2 | 20:02 |
| Lumiere | and loving it | 20:02 |
| jelkner | it didn't :-( | 20:02 |
| jelkner | irc isn't filtered | 20:03 |
| dwelsh | welsh here, but not for that long | 20:03 |
| jelkner | so, what is FiOS? | 20:03 |
| th1a | Hi dwelsh. | 20:03 |
| Lumiere | Verizon's Fiber to the House solution | 20:03 |
| dwelsh | hey | 20:03 |
| th1a | As much bandwidth as you want to pay for, basically. | 20:03 |
| jelkner | dwelsh: is pcardune going to make today? | 20:03 |
| Lumiere | yea | 20:03 |
| dwelsh | calling him now | 20:03 |
| Lumiere | My family pays $40 and get 5m down 2m up | 20:04 |
| jelkner | i don't have a phone | 20:04 |
| jelkner | let's do this here | 20:04 |
| Lumiere | k | 20:04 |
| Lumiere | for another like 15 you get 15 down 2 up | 20:04 |
| th1a | Doesn't seem worth it. | 20:04 |
| Lumiere | yea | 20:04 |
| Lumiere | 5/2 is plenty | 20:04 |
| dwelsh | Paul's not picking up | 20:04 |
| dwelsh | Hope he's coming' | 20:04 |
| th1a | It is still $100 to get a static IP. | 20:04 |
| th1a | That drives me nuts. | 20:05 |
| jelkner | ok, gentleman, i have limited time | 20:05 |
| jelkner | to the meeting... | 20:05 |
| jelkner | agenda: | 20:05 |
| jelkner | 1. PyCon | 20:05 |
| jelkner | we can do this with or without pcardune | 20:05 |
| jelkner | 2. the wiki | 20:05 |
| jelkner | anything else? | 20:05 |
| dwelsh | and site infrastructure in general | 20:06 |
| dwelsh | may say a word about Dec. sprint, too | 20:06 |
| jelkner | sure | 20:06 |
| Lumiere | th1a: I just run dyndns and a cname | 20:06 |
| th1a | As I said in my email, we'll have Jean-Francois and Ignas at PyCon if they can get in the country. | 20:06 |
| th1a | Lumiere: I've tried that. As of a couple years ago I couldn't really get it to work consistently. | 20:06 |
| dwelsh | Who's going from our end, Jeff | 20:06 |
| jelkner | any idea when you will know? | 20:07 |
| th1a | By the end of the month. | 20:07 |
| jelkner | good | 20:07 |
| th1a | I'm stalling on submitting a budget to see if we can get the Belgian schools finalized. | 20:07 |
| jelkner | pycon starts on Friday and runs through Sunday | 20:07 |
| jelkner | (3 days) | 20:07 |
| jelkner | then there are 4 days of sprints | 20:07 |
| dwelsh | what are the dates? | 20:07 |
| jelkner | Feb 23-25 for the conference | 20:08 |
| jelkner | Feb 26-29 for the sprint | 20:08 |
| Lumiere | where is PyCon? | 20:08 |
| jelkner | from our end: Paul Carduner, Will Dickerson, Alan Elkner, and I | 20:09 |
| jelkner | plus one of last summer's interns (either Linda or Robbie) | 20:09 |
| jelkner | Paul, Will and I can only stay for two of the sprint days | 20:09 |
| jelkner | Alan can stay all 4 | 20:10 |
| jelkner | the sprint is where the real work will get done | 20:10 |
| dwelsh | And where is it? | 20:10 |
| jelkner | but the conference is a great learning experience for the studens | 20:10 |
| jelkner | near dallas, tx | 20:10 |
| jelkner | paul is presenting on zope 3 | 20:10 |
| jelkner | and it is also a great networking opportunity | 20:11 |
| jelkner | it was pycon, after all that brought cando and schooltool together | 20:11 |
| dwelsh | Welsh does need to go soon.... | 20:11 |
| dwelsh | I just want to say | 20:11 |
| jelkner | th1a: i was thinking that since the big expense is flying them there | 20:11 |
| dwelsh | Communication between the SchoolTool teams will be very important | 20:12 |
| jelkner | it would be best if they could stay for all 4 days of the sprint | 20:12 |
| th1a | Sure. | 20:12 |
| dwelsh | And I hope Elkner's wiki will help (or some other technology) | 20:12 |
| jelkner | i'm waiting for pcardune's response to my email | 20:12 |
| jelkner | i was hoping he would be here now | 20:12 |
| jelkner | tom suggested paul can orient me to the wiki | 20:12 |
| jelkner | i'll call him tonight and follow up tomorrow | 20:13 |
| * jinty just wants to quickly annonce while th1a is arround that he will be on holiday from wednesday-sunday (though for those in the states, that is practically tuesday) | 20:13 | |
| dwelsh | Last, I think it would be good for SchoolTool put out a new version (07) at the end of this SchoolYear | 20:13 |
| dwelsh | I was very impressed by Mark Shuttleworth's Ubuntu presentation | 20:13 |
| dwelsh | and how the commitment to releases has moved them along | 20:13 |
| dwelsh | a SchoolTool release will focus us all on what will be in that release | 20:13 |
| dwelsh | and releasing once a year seems smart to me | 20:14 |
| jelkner | i concur! | 20:14 |
| dwelsh | ...but then again, what do I really know:) | 20:14 |
| jelkner | cando will certainly need a release next year | 20:14 |
| dwelsh | absolutely | 20:14 |
| th1a | Well, it would be nice, but we'll have to see what we've got. | 20:14 |
| th1a | We can't put something out that we can't support. | 20:14 |
| dwelsh | Let's commit to release, then see what we can get into it | 20:14 |
| jelkner | so we basically have to do a new schooltool one also | 20:15 |
| dwelsh | Remember, no one cleans a group house until company's coming! | 20:15 |
| jelkner | i agree with dave | 20:15 |
| th1a | And by support I mean have at least one person doing bugfixes and feature requests full time. | 20:15 |
| jelkner | even if it only means schooltool better supports the cando release | 20:15 |
| jelkner | i'm not suggesting you promise what you can't deliver | 20:15 |
| jelkner | but we are working toward better integration | 20:15 |
| dwelsh | whatever it means, I think we should force ourselves to evaluate what we have, and clean it up enough to release it | 20:16 |
| jelkner | so we want next years cando to build on the current schooltool | 20:16 |
| th1a | Perhaps we can do some kind of release that is specific to CanDo. | 20:16 |
| jelkner | yes | 20:16 |
| jelkner | that would work | 20:16 |
| dwelsh | yup | 20:16 |
| jelkner | but things like the ui improvement would benefit everyone | 20:16 |
| ignas | hmm, on one hand commitment to release is good, on the other hand partner schools do not really care about releases ... | 20:16 |
| jelkner | so anyone next year interested in looking at schooltool should see that release | 20:16 |
| jelkner | ignas: not as long as they just go to you for support | 20:17 |
| th1a | The primary focus has to be on deploying in the partner schools. | 20:17 |
| dwelsh | schools want a version to use for that academic year, though | 20:17 |
| jelkner | but we need to build the community | 20:17 |
| ignas | i mean spending time to get something out of the door that is not directly useful to any particular school might just add work without actually usable (as in used by someone) results ... | 20:17 |
| jelkner | we don't want to wait two years before encouraging anyone else to look at it | 20:17 |
| Lumiere | ignas: they care about a release... the release is something that goes into their school | 20:18 |
| Lumiere | it just happens that it's schooltool-<schoolname> getting released | 20:18 |
| jelkner | ignas: cando *will* be useful out of the box for many people | 20:18 |
| Lumiere | instead of schooltool-<2007> | 20:18 |
| th1a | Well, I think we should think about a CanDo release, and what should be in the underlying SchoolTool part of that. | 20:18 |
| jelkner | we are committed to making it so | 20:18 |
| th1a | You guys are just way ahead of us in some ways. | 20:18 |
| ignas | i am really sorry, but I want to build a usable application, not a community at the moment :/ | 20:19 |
| jelkner | ignas: and that is what you are focusing on | 20:19 |
| ignas | i just might not have the time to go through commiting, packaging, maintaining something not used by lyceum or schools in belgium | 20:19 |
| th1a | So perhaps we'll want to release SchoolTool/CanDo with our sketchier components removed (attendance...). | 20:19 |
| jelkner | now you are talking! | 20:19 |
| th1a | But it'll pretty much carry the CanDo brand. | 20:20 |
| Lumiere | could we do a release of SchoolTool with the sketchier components removed generally | 20:20 |
| th1a | We could call it SchoolBell! | 20:20 |
| Lumiere | lol | 20:20 |
| jelkner | i don't think i understand the difference enough to have an opionion on what we call it | 20:20 |
| ignas | just that i would have to stabilize all the components, as components will get even more sketchier than they are at the moment, until they'll get stabilized ... | 20:21 |
| Lumiere | school tool should be the small core | 20:21 |
| th1a | But really, we should think of a CanDo release in 2007 with a solid SchoolTool base. | 20:21 |
| Lumiere | then install packages for what you need | 20:21 |
| jelkner | we plan to work on resource scheduling also | 20:21 |
| Lumiere | so schooltool-attendence | 20:21 |
| Lumiere | schooltool-resources | 20:21 |
| Lumiere | schooltool-cando | 20:21 |
| th1a | Not attendance. | 20:21 |
| Lumiere | well | 20:21 |
| Lumiere | I am saying once it works | 20:21 |
| ignas | Lumiere: factoring it out - takes time, a lot of it ... | 20:21 |
| jelkner | i like that | 20:21 |
| Lumiere | ignas: yes, but it's better in the long run | 20:22 |
| th1a | Well, in the long run we're all dead. | 20:22 |
| Lumiere | yea | 20:22 |
| ignas | Lumiere: but useless in the short run ... | 20:22 |
| Lumiere | ok | 20:22 |
| ignas | sorry, 2 programmers, 3 schools, limited time | 20:22 |
| th1a | Well, regardless, there will be a CanDo release based on some SchoolTool branch. | 20:22 |
| Lumiere | which is where we are this yea | 20:22 |
| jelkner | ignas: i thought the whole point of this was to broaden this out and work together more | 20:23 |
| th1a | And we need to make that as firm as possible. | 20:23 |
| jelkner | why do you say 2 programmers | 20:23 |
| ignas | and i will do my best not to make things more difficult to CanDo while refactoring everything ... | 20:23 |
| jelkner | what about pcardune, wdicers, aelkner? | 20:23 |
| jelkner | if you limit yourself to 2, you may never get this done | 20:23 |
| jelkner | we need to build a community | 20:23 |
| ignas | jelkner: they are not actively commiting to schooltool at the moment, and they have independent agendas of their own ... | 20:23 |
| jelkner | or die sooner rather than later | 20:23 |
| jelkner | independent of what? | 20:24 |
| jelkner | what is the SchoolTool agenda? | 20:24 |
| * jfroche would enjoy having more people working on schooltool components | 20:24 | |
| Lumiere | paul has school | 20:24 |
| th1a | OK... I'm not sure what the conflict is here. | 20:24 |
| jelkner | how do i know if something is part of it or not? | 20:24 |
| ignas | jelkner: independent from things that lyceum needs, that schools in belgium need | 20:25 |
| jelkner | lyceum is vilnious? | 20:25 |
| th1a | Yes. | 20:25 |
| jelkner | ok | 20:25 |
| jelkner | then belgium and lyceum are independent too, yes? | 20:25 |
| ignas | jelkner: yes, but both being in Europe | 20:26 |
| th1a | Essentially, the CanDo developers need to be focused on what is going to get the CanDo stack where they want it. | 20:26 |
| ignas | they have a lot incommon (apparently, i didn't know that until i met with jfroche) | 20:26 |
| th1a | Including the SchoolTool parts they use. | 20:26 |
| jelkner | which parts are those? | 20:26 |
| th1a | That's up to you, jelkner. | 20:27 |
| jelkner | ? | 20:27 |
| jelkner | i'm asking which parts they use? | 20:27 |
| th1a | they = CanDo developers. | 20:27 |
| ignas | jelkner: timetable model, some parts of demographics, way sections work ... | 20:27 |
| th1a | I was continuing my thought, not ignas's. | 20:27 |
| jelkner | thanks, ignas, that is what i was asking | 20:27 |
| jelkner | we plan to work on resource management | 20:28 |
| jelkner | that is timetable, yes? | 20:28 |
| ignas | no | 20:28 |
| th1a | In part. | 20:28 |
| th1a | :-) | 20:28 |
| Lumiere | timetable might be the basis for a resource management system | 20:28 |
| ignas | no | 20:28 |
| th1a | Insofar as a resource can be scheduled for a section. | 20:28 |
| jelkner | it would be very helpful to me to get a better understanding of what is being done in Europe | 20:28 |
| jelkner | i will be looking for ways we can work together | 20:29 |
| ignas | jelkner: most probably - it won't touch the timetable when i'm done timetables will have only a very light connection with resources | 20:29 |
| jelkner | that will be much easier if i understand what is being done | 20:29 |
| jelkner | can we use the wiki for that? | 20:30 |
| ignas | at the moment we are working on the Person (custom person data for every school) | 20:30 |
| ignas | timetables - convergint timetable calendars and schooltool calendars into 1 calendar | 20:30 |
| ignas | multi language support - a widget that allows you to select a language from a list while the application is running | 20:31 |
| ignas | and stores the info in a cookie | 20:31 |
| jelkner | thanks! | 20:31 |
| jelkner | how does your school use SchoolTool in their day to day operation? | 20:32 |
| ignas | school specific evolution scripts | 20:32 |
| ignas | they are not using it yet, because they want timetable refactoring done first | 20:32 |
| jelkner | how do they want to use it? | 20:32 |
| ignas | as at the moment timetable events can't have any data added to them | 20:32 |
| ignas | like description | 20:32 |
| ignas | or resources | 20:33 |
| ignas | so they are kind of display only | 20:33 |
| jelkner | ignas: what is the first thing they are going to use it for? | 20:34 |
| ignas | the language selection is very important as only like 50% of the translation is in there at the moment | 20:34 |
| ignas | jelkner: timetabling, so teachers could attach data to timetable events | 20:34 |
| ignas | so pupils could read it | 20:34 |
| jelkner | what is a timetable event? | 20:34 |
| jelkner | i mean from a user's point of view | 20:35 |
| ignas | an event that at the moment is dynamically generated from section timetables | 20:35 |
| jelkner | can you give me an example? | 20:35 |
| ignas | Monday -> 12:00 -> Maths for (1a, 1b) | 20:36 |
| ignas | a lesson | 20:36 |
| jelkner | ah | 20:36 |
| ignas | visible in calendars of teachers and students | 20:36 |
| jelkner | so teachers will be using it to post assignments | 20:36 |
| jelkner | and students will be reading those assignments? | 20:36 |
| ignas | yes, something like that | 20:37 |
| jelkner | cool | 20:37 |
| Lumiere | they could also post the class location for that day | 20:37 |
| ignas | more like change it | 20:37 |
| Lumiere | yea | 20:37 |
| Lumiere | (same thing, different words) | 20:38 |
| jelkner | isn't there overlap between that and the kind of resource scheduling we are talking about doing? | 20:38 |
| ignas | they are already set when you add a timetable to a section | 20:38 |
| Lumiere | there is | 20:38 |
| Lumiere | except this is section related | 20:38 |
| Lumiere | rather then resource related | 20:38 |
| Lumiere | I can only assume that timetables aren't tracking the resources | 20:38 |
| ignas | tracking ? | 20:38 |
| jelkner | ok, but there is code reuse opportunty here, yes? | 20:38 |
| Lumiere | yes | 20:38 |
| ignas | what are your exact usecases ? | 20:39 |
| Lumiere | ignas: keeping track of where/what resources are in use | 20:39 |
| ignas | that is already done | 20:39 |
| jelkner | teachers want to sign up for a computer lab | 20:39 |
| ignas | if event A books resource B | 20:39 |
| jelkner | when is it available | 20:39 |
| jelkner | yes | 20:39 |
| ignas | then event A is visible in resources B calendar | 20:39 |
| ignas | and when you click "Book resources" for event A | 20:39 |
| Lumiere | is there a way to create a set of resources? | 20:39 |
| Lumiere | and make that (somewhat) static? | 20:40 |
| ignas | you see the status of all the resources (booked or free) | 20:40 |
| Lumiere | or are resources just typed in | 20:40 |
| ignas | set of resources? | 20:40 |
| ignas | for example? | 20:40 |
| jelkner | yes | 20:40 |
| Lumiere | a school has 3 computer labs, 3 mobile presentation carts, 3 laptop carts | 20:40 |
| jelkner | yes | 20:40 |
| ignas | so 9 different resources | 20:40 |
| Lumiere | that's the set of resouces that can be booked at that school | 20:41 |
| Lumiere | yea | 20:41 |
| jelkner | dave came up with the idea to work on this part of the project | 20:41 |
| Lumiere | dwelsh has stepped out to another meeting at this time | 20:41 |
| ignas | well you can already do that with ST | 20:41 |
| ignas | i mean you just add 9 resources | 20:41 |
| ignas | and you can book them on normal ST calendar events | 20:41 |
| jelkner | currently, our technology coordinators are using a filemaker server to do this | 20:41 |
| jelkner | we want to replace that with schooltool | 20:42 |
| ignas | and i am working so you could book them on separate timetable events (lessons) | 20:42 |
| ignas | any other usecases ? | 20:42 |
| ignas | i mean - what can the filemaker do? | 20:42 |
| Lumiere | almost nothing | 20:42 |
| Lumiere | (I wrote the filemaker solution) | 20:42 |
| jelkner | ok, i need to run to get ready for my incoming class | 20:43 |
| Lumiere | it's resource centric | 20:43 |
| jelkner | this has been a helpful start | 20:43 |
| Lumiere | so, a teacher logs in, sees a list of resources and clicks on one | 20:43 |
| jelkner | thanks all! | 20:43 |
| Lumiere | it takes them to a view where they can scroll around days | 20:43 |
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| Lumiere | then write their name in for certain periods on one day | 20:43 |
| ignas | Lumiere: in schooltool you go to Resource list, click on one, and look at it's calendar | 20:43 |
| Lumiere | so, what I am going to tell dwelsh | 20:43 |
| Lumiere | is that Resource Scheduling is done | 20:44 |
| Lumiere | but that it may be useful to have the people who were to focus on it look it over and see if it matches the set of use cases that he's generated | 20:44 |
| ignas | :) well, he might want to talk to me directly maybe we can find some places that might be improved to better suit his requirements | 20:44 |
| Lumiere | yes | 20:44 |
| Lumiere | the only issue I see so far with this | 20:44 |
| Lumiere | is that I would need to create courses/sections for every class | 20:45 |
| Lumiere | so that they could schedule resources | 20:45 |
| Lumiere | (which is a lot of data management for me) | 20:45 |
| ignas | well, in normal cases - it is done automatically, well most schools have the info in some electronic format most of the time ... | 20:45 |
| Lumiere | yea | 20:46 |
| Lumiere | but we need to SIF it over | 20:46 |
| ignas | teacher can book the resource himself too | 20:46 |
| ignas | if you nead that | 20:46 |
| Lumiere | ok | 20:46 |
| Lumiere | so if I have all the teachers in | 20:46 |
| ignas | then you'd only need a list of teachers | 20:46 |
| Lumiere | they could just book the resource to themselves | 20:46 |
| ignas | yes | 20:46 |
| Lumiere | that's perfect | 20:46 |
| Lumiere | that's exactly how we're doing it now | 20:46 |
| ignas | nice | 20:46 |
| Lumiere | (only difference is I would have to make per-teacher accounts instead of a single teacher account) | 20:46 |
| Lumiere | it'd also remove the honor system that's in place | 20:47 |
| Lumiere | right now a teacher could overwrite another teacher's entry | 20:47 |
| ignas | well, you can always make teachers write their name in the event title | 20:47 |
| ignas | and stay with the honour system | 20:47 |
| ignas | if you like | 20:47 |
| ignas | the system could get improved in a couple of points, so if you have spare programmer power i could direct to places that need some work to be done ;) | 20:48 |
| ignas | to be faster, more convenient ;) | 20:48 |
| Lumiere | we were planning to bring programmers onboard to do this stuff | 20:48 |
| ignas | but first you should look at what's already in there | 20:51 |
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| ignas | ok, g2g home now :) | 20:57 |
| ignas | by everybody | 20:57 |
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| pcardune | dwelsh, did you call earlier? | 21:02 |
| *** th1a has joined #schooltool | 21:04 | |
| th1a | ...and we're back. | 21:04 |
| Lumiere | pcardune: he did | 21:08 |
| Lumiere | for the 1pm meeting today | 21:08 |
| Lumiere | that's just ended | 21:08 |
| Lumiere | basically | 21:08 |
| pcardune | oh | 21:08 |
| Lumiere | I suggest to both pcardune and th1a that you check the logs on the schooltool site | 21:08 |
| pcardune | I was in another meeting | 21:08 |
| Lumiere | cause there's some stuff on resource scheduling that is exceedingly important for next years dev work on the elkner side | 21:09 |
| th1a | Can you see how fast my bits are flowing? | 21:23 |
| Lumiere | I can feel it from here ;) | 21:26 |
| pcardune | sounds expensive... fiber that is | 21:27 |
| Lumiere | same as DSL here | 21:27 |
| Lumiere | $40 a month | 21:27 |
| pcardune | I agree, that welsh should try out existing resource management and figure out what exactly (if anything) needs to be changed. | 21:30 |
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