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| mgedmin | ignas: "Why calendars are hard": http://blogs.jigzaw.com/?p=53 | 15:45 |
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| * th1a shuffles some papers around. | 16:28 | |
| th1a | ignas: ayt? | 16:30 |
| th1a | hoi ignas? | 16:33 |
| ignas | yes | 16:35 |
| th1a | Ah, good. | 16:36 |
| jfroche | hello ignas | 16:37 |
| ignas | hi | 16:37 |
| th1a | So nothing has been finalized, but it is looking like jfroche will be working with us. | 16:37 |
| th1a | It is looking likely. | 16:37 |
| ignas | welcome :) | 16:37 |
| jfroche | right, need to fix up a few things and would really enjoy to work with you on this | 16:38 |
| jfroche | since when are you working on schooltool ? | 16:38 |
| th1a | Have you two met before? | 16:38 |
| ignas | jfroche: 2005, February 01 | 16:39 |
| jfroche | might be if you were at europython or plone conf | 16:39 |
| ignas | ouch | 16:39 |
| ignas | 2004 Feburary i mean | 16:40 |
| ignas | i was in europython 2004 and 2005 | 16:40 |
| jfroche | uhm then not | 16:41 |
| jfroche | what do you think to be the best start point ? | 16:41 |
| th1a | Start point for? | 16:41 |
| jfroche | working with you | 16:42 |
| th1a | You mean code or getting to know each other? | 16:42 |
| ignas | jfroche: how much experience with Zope3 do you have ? | 16:42 |
| jfroche | always learning, i come from z2 | 16:43 |
| jfroche | i developped a connector for flash with zope 3 to get in touch with it | 16:43 |
| th1a | jfroche wrote a nice introduction to Zope3 for Plone programmers. | 16:43 |
| jfroche | yes i was introduce to zope before plone | 16:43 |
| jfroche | then dive into plone | 16:43 |
| th1a | http://www.jfroche.be/open-source/zope-plone/walkingfivezope3.pdf/view | 16:44 |
| ignas | if you know Zope3 CA pretty well (you know what are adapters, viewlets, content providers, subscribers) | 16:44 |
| ignas | then you should look at security policy first as it is the part that differs from standard Zope3 working a lot | 16:45 |
| ignas | if not, then i'd go for levels, attendance, some calendaring to understand how new modules are hooked up into schooltool | 16:45 |
| ignas | as they are pretty fresh, unit tests/functional tests are written in a better manner than they were in the old days | 16:46 |
| jfroche | ll begin with the security policy | 16:46 |
| ignas | let's say calendaring views are not the best example when it comes to proper unit tests or plugability | 16:47 |
| th1a | Also, I still recommend the "commendation" package, which was written as an example for developers. | 16:47 |
| th1a | Yes, timetabling and calendaring is just inherently hairy. | 16:47 |
| jfroche | ok good to know | 16:48 |
| th1a | And the demographics stuff is stylistically different because mfaassen did that his own way. | 16:49 |
| th1a | Which I probably shouldn't have let him do... | 16:49 |
| jfroche | happy to see that testing is important for you | 16:49 |
| th1a | Testing is, if anything, too important. | 16:49 |
| th1a | If you guys want to stop testing sample code generation, I'd happily endorse that. | 16:49 |
| th1a | Sample data generation, I mean. | 16:50 |
| ignas | th1a: well testing has paid of when srichter was doing the refactoring, when we did new security policy, and is paying of with the new navigation stuff, as i am sure that the new navigation branch still allows users to perform everything that they could do with the old navigation ... | 16:51 |
| th1a | I'm not anti-testing. | 16:52 |
| th1a | OK, I am anti-sample data testing. | 16:52 |
| th1a | But that's a particular case where it introduces lots of dependencies for little benefit. | 16:53 |
| th1a | But anyhow... | 16:53 |
| th1a | So what's the news from Vilnius? | 16:54 |
| th1a | Any word from the Lyceum? | 16:54 |
| ignas | at the moment i am waiting for them to provide their timetable data | 16:54 |
| ignas | principal of the school is pretty busy as it is the start of the year | 16:54 |
| ignas | so not much news really | 16:54 |
| th1a | What's the status of the discussion? Why do you need the timetable data? | 16:55 |
| ignas | with timetables + list of students i can try to set up a working instance | 16:55 |
| ignas | to see what more data do i need | 16:56 |
| ignas | some things are very flaky on their end at the moment | 16:56 |
| ignas | courses/sections are not stabilized yet etc. | 16:56 |
| th1a | Are you setting up this instance to sell them on the project? | 16:56 |
| ignas | so that teacher would have something to put his hands on and try | 16:57 |
| ignas | as well as to see whehther schooltool can handle their usecase out of the box | 16:57 |
| ignas | as their courses/sections might not (from what i have heard) exxactly match schooltool's model | 16:58 |
| th1a | But we haven't gotten a definite thumbs-up on the project yet from them, right? | 16:58 |
| ignas | not on paper | 16:59 |
| th1a | Orally? | 16:59 |
| th1a | I'm just not sure where we are. | 16:59 |
| ignas | i see, i'll call them and try to get it official, just that i don't know what do we need for that | 17:01 |
| ignas | confirmation from Mark? confirmation from you? | 17:01 |
| th1a | I'm just waiting for the word from you to include it in my proposal to Mark. | 17:01 |
| th1a | I'm sure he's not going to reject the school. | 17:02 |
| th1a | Can they give you a place to work in the school? | 17:02 |
| ignas | probably, i was not sure whether we need that, as the school is very close to the place where i live (15-20 minutes) | 17:03 |
| ignas | 30 minutes from PoV office | 17:03 |
| th1a | Practically, I do think it is important. | 17:04 |
| ignas | ok | 17:04 |
| th1a | Need to get you in the school. | 17:04 |
| th1a | Feel their pain. | 17:04 |
| th1a | Will they want us to do the hosting? | 17:05 |
| th1a | jfroche: Can you discuss your relationship to Denis and Nicolas and their schools? | 17:05 |
| jfroche | th1a: have you got precise information about the schools in belgium ? | 17:05 |
| jfroche | :) | 17:05 |
| th1a | I visited La Futaie. | 17:06 |
| th1a | They've got a crazy report card, which is an excellent case. | 17:06 |
| ignas | i was thinking that things like that will be negotiated when the fact about cooperation with the school will be official, now i understand that i was wrong | 17:06 |
| th1a | ignas: I was thinking the cooperation would be official after you discussed those things ;-) | 17:07 |
| jfroche | ok i think that Denis and Nic. are waiting for Mark and my approval | 17:07 |
| th1a | Denis and Nic should be waiting to see if I can hire you, jfroche. | 17:07 |
| th1a | Well, more or less... | 17:07 |
| th1a | We already have some relationship with La Futaie, so I'm not so worried about them. | 17:08 |
| jfroche | but you need to be sure that these school are ready to accept me | 17:08 |
| th1a | And it sounds like Denis should be able to make this happen. | 17:08 |
| th1a | jfroche: So Denis was your teacher? | 17:08 |
| jfroche | ok | 17:08 |
| jfroche | never, i worked with him during summer holiday on zope | 17:09 |
| jfroche | at his previous company | 17:09 |
| th1a | Oh... well I misunderstood that completely! | 17:09 |
| jfroche | now he became teacher | 17:09 |
| th1a | Which company was that? | 17:10 |
| jfroche | Aragne | 17:10 |
| jfroche | heard about it ? | 17:10 |
| jfroche | you better speak with him about this | 17:10 |
| th1a | Haven't heard of it. | 17:10 |
| th1a | So jfroche will be working with two schools in Brussels. A high school and an elementary school. | 17:11 |
| th1a | jfroche: Do you know much about Denis's school? | 17:13 |
| jfroche | except that it's one of the best school around Charleroi no | 17:14 |
| th1a | Do they have a website? | 17:14 |
| jfroche | if you want me to contact o | 17:16 |
| jfroche | ther schools tell me too | 17:16 |
| jfroche | http://arvauban.net/modules/news/ | 17:16 |
| th1a | jfroche: No, I think these two should be fine. A strong prior connection in the school is valuable. | 17:17 |
| jfroche | right | 17:17 |
| th1a | Going forward, how well jfroche and ignas work together and communicate will be important. | 17:18 |
| th1a | This is something that has consistently been more difficult than I anticipate it will be. | 17:18 |
| jfroche | at least we are nearly on the same timezone | 17:19 |
| th1a | I think having Ignas focusing consistently on SchoolTool will help. | 17:19 |
| ignas | :) | 17:19 |
| jfroche | ignas: will you continue to work for pov ? | 17:20 |
| th1a | Because POV's response collectively would vary depending on whether or not they were actually working on SchoolTool at the time. | 17:20 |
| ignas | kind of | 17:21 |
| th1a | Another thing that will be different is that you two will be doing your own planning in terms of what features will be implemented when. | 17:22 |
| th1a | So the three of us will need to coordinate that so we won't be stepping on each other's toes. | 17:22 |
| ignas | th1a: can you email me the list of questions you want to have answers for so i would not skip anything important | 17:24 |
| th1a | 1) Do they have a space for you to work? | 17:24 |
| th1a | 2) Do you have to tie into any other systems? | 17:25 |
| th1a | 3) Would they intend to use all the components (calendaring, demo, attendance, grading) in production (do they have some other system they're mandated to use)? | 17:26 |
| th1a | 4) Are there any laws covering how student data is handled? | 17:26 |
| th1a | That's pretty much it. | 17:27 |
| th1a | So I'm going to send an email to Mark today looking for a thumbs up on jfroche, and if I get that, then I'll be making up the budget for the full year. | 17:28 |
| ignas | 3) they want to do a gradual approach, starting from calendaring, then going for gradebook/attendance (they need some changes for both of these to work) | 17:28 |
| th1a | How frequently do you think you two should meet face to face (without me). | 17:28 |
| ignas | it will depend | 17:28 |
| ignas | if it happens so that we will work on the same part at the same time - we'll need to comunicate constantly | 17:29 |
| jfroche | depends if we are working on the same module at the same time | 17:29 |
| ignas | if not, then weekly meeting will be enough | 17:29 |
| ignas | maybe with some questions both ways when something is not clear enough from the technical perspective | 17:29 |
| ignas | i'll try to do at least some code reviews | 17:30 |
| ignas | though i am not as skilled as mgedmin in that | 17:30 |
| th1a | mgedmin is the master of code nitpicking ;-) | 17:30 |
| jfroche | ignas: is it so that you are online everyday ? | 17:31 |
| ignas | yes | 17:31 |
| jfroche | great | 17:31 |
| jfroche | in this channel ? | 17:31 |
| ignas | yes | 17:31 |
| jfroche | are you on skype ? | 17:31 |
| ignas | no, just google talk, ICQ, jabber, MSN | 17:31 |
| th1a | Having some kind of voice chat would be good. | 17:32 |
| jfroche | google talk | 17:32 |
| jfroche | ll try that one | 17:32 |
| ignas | google talk for chat mostly | 17:32 |
| th1a | That isn't voice chat though, is it? | 17:32 |
| jfroche | indeed no | 17:33 |
| jfroche | thought so | 17:33 |
| ignas | i don't have suitable environment most of the time | 17:33 |
| jfroche | ah ok | 17:33 |
| th1a | OK, time to wrap up, formally. | 17:34 |
| ignas | but we can dedicate time for that | 17:34 |
| th1a | Yes, specific times for voice chat is a good idea, I think. | 17:34 |
| jfroche | agree on this, its sometimes quicker to speak directly | 17:35 |
| ignas | i mean i can go to a small dedicated silent room | 17:35 |
| jfroche | (eventhought my spoken english isn't the best one) | 17:35 |
| th1a | Enter the cone of silence. | 17:35 |
| mgedmin | in soviet russia, code picks you! | 17:36 |
| ignas | jfroche: i am always having problems with my written English sounding offensive | 17:36 |
| ignas | something with the structure of my sentences :/ | 17:36 |
| jfroche | ok we will improve both of us | 17:37 |
| mgedmin | ignas: have you tried using fewer swear words? | 17:38 |
| th1a | I'm usually the only one who swears around here. | 17:39 |
| th1a | It is called "setting the tone." | 17:39 |
| th1a | I'm going to go take a shower. | 17:40 |
| * th1a bangs the bag of gravel. | 17:40 | |
| ignas | as for time online - 13:00 'Europe/Vilnius' is the time POV start working | 17:42 |
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