| *** didymo has joined #schooltool | 01:09 | |
| *** jinty_ has quit IRC | 03:18 | |
| *** didymo has quit IRC | 04:26 | |
| *** eldafar has quit IRC | 06:43 | |
| *** vidasp has joined #schooltool | 08:15 | |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 6409: | 08:23 |
|---|---|---|
| povbot | /svn/commits: Changed absolute urls into relative ones. | 08:23 |
| *** wrobel has joined #schooltool | 09:15 | |
| *** Aiste has joined #schooltool | 09:31 | |
| *** Aiste has quit IRC | 10:07 | |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 6410: | 12:48 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: UI redesign: added new mode selection style, some fixes. | 12:49 |
| *** jinty has joined #schooltool | 12:49 | |
| *** mgedmin has joined #schooltool | 12:58 | |
| *** Aiste has joined #schooltool | 13:25 | |
| *** gintas has joined #schooltool | 13:37 | |
| *** jinty has quit IRC | 14:41 | |
| *** ignas has joined #schooltool | 14:52 | |
| *** jinty has joined #schooltool | 15:31 | |
| *** vidasp has quit IRC | 15:56 | |
| *** didymo has joined #schooltool | 16:05 | |
| ignas | th1a_: ayt? | 16:36 |
| jinty | ignas: you pinged me a while back? | 16:42 |
| ignas | when ? | 16:42 |
| ignas | yesterday ? | 16:42 |
| jinty | day before, I think | 16:43 |
| jinty | btw, thanks for fixing things before you went away | 16:43 |
| ignas | what things ? | 16:43 |
| ignas | :D | 16:43 |
| jinty | made making the alpha3 and packages much easier:) | 16:44 |
| *** ignas_ has joined #schooltool | 17:30 | |
| *** ignas has quit IRC | 17:33 | |
| *** ignas_ is now known as ignas | 17:34 | |
| *** ignas has quit IRC | 17:44 | |
| *** ignas has joined #schooltool | 17:44 | |
| *** th1a has joined #schooltool | 18:01 | |
| ignas | th1a: hi | 19:45 |
| ignas | th1a: http://vidas.pov.lt/st-live/ and log in as a manager | 19:46 |
| ignas | (vidas was presuaded to give our friendly red colour back, but had no time to do that today) | 19:46 |
| th1a | ignas: Looking now... | 19:51 |
| th1a | Yes, we need the red back. | 19:53 |
| th1a | Also, while I appreciate the idea of having the buttons and tabs in the same row, in practice, they won't both fit. | 19:53 |
| th1a | I mean, once there are more tabs and tabs that need more buttons (like adminstration, for example). | 19:54 |
| ignas | tabs with more buttons ? | 19:54 |
| th1a | For example, calendar only needs three, | 19:55 |
| th1a | but for administering schooltool, you'll probably have a button for "timetables" a button for "terms" a button for "students" etc. | 19:56 |
| ignas | err that was not in the requirements :/ | 19:57 |
| ignas | oh | 19:57 |
| ignas | oops | 19:57 |
| ignas | it was | 19:57 |
| ignas | misunderstood | 19:57 |
| ignas | tabs not buttons | 19:57 |
| ignas | buttons are "monthly" "weekly" | 19:57 |
| th1a | ignas: We should have brought you to the sprint. | 19:58 |
| ignas | how often one has to access terms and timetables ? | 19:58 |
| ignas | i don't think that looking at terms is an everyday activity | 19:59 |
| th1a | So there will, in the future, be other tabs, like "manage" | 19:59 |
| th1a | Which will only be visible to a manager, | 19:59 |
| th1a | and they'll click on that when they need to do site management things. | 19:59 |
| ignas | maybe we could postpone the solution of too many tabs to fit to the time when we will have too many tabs | 19:59 |
| th1a | And they'll select which management task they're doing by clicking on a button. | 19:59 |
| th1a | Well... we can postpone worrying about too many tabs, | 20:00 |
| ignas | i don't want tabs to become another navigation menu with 10+n items | 20:00 |
| th1a | but if the tabs and buttons are on the same row, that just doesn't work. | 20:00 |
| ignas | ok | 20:00 |
| th1a | Right. | 20:01 |
| th1a | "Manage" is just going to be a bit ugly however we do it. | 20:01 |
| th1a | But a "manage" tab with say, 8 buttons is not that bad. | 20:01 |
| ignas | so why won't tabs and buttons on the same row work out ? | 20:02 |
| th1a | I just think it takes too much space horizontally. | 20:02 |
| th1a | Especially if you allow temporary tabs. | 20:02 |
| th1a | And if you add tabs for CanDo. | 20:02 |
| ignas | oh | 20:03 |
| ignas | i just though that temporary tabs should not go near the normal tabs | 20:03 |
| ignas | as that would add a lot of confusion | 20:03 |
| th1a | That might be a good point. | 20:03 |
| ignas | they are a totaly different thing | 20:03 |
| ignas | totally | 20:03 |
| th1a | I don't think they are totally different. Where would you put them? | 20:04 |
| ignas | depends on what they will do | 20:04 |
| ignas | i still don't really know that for real | 20:05 |
| ignas | i'd like them to switch the context of the navigation | 20:05 |
| ignas | be like a stack of "important" objects | 20:05 |
| ignas | so you add 2 persons to your temp list | 20:06 |
| ignas | and select attendance+weekly tab/button | 20:06 |
| ignas | and switching between persons switches you between their weekly attendance | 20:06 |
| ignas | and you have 1 more temp tab in there that returns you to your "default" context (your own attendance+weekly) | 20:07 |
| ignas | reimplementing a full browser just because text browsers can't open new windows/tabs would be difficult | 20:08 |
| th1a | I do think that having a little stack of "important/current" objects is a good idea. | 20:09 |
| th1a | Infrae uses that in some of their products, I think. | 20:09 |
| ignas | the question is whether we are preserving the state when one switches to another object or not ... | 20:11 |
| ignas | i mean if you were looking at the "+attendance/2005-01-01/weekly" and click on a person in your stack | 20:11 |
| ignas | where do you go ? | 20:11 |
| ignas | technically it is possible to have different "state" for every "context" in the stack | 20:12 |
| th1a | OK... here's the thing... | 20:13 |
| th1a | We don't want to play that game. | 20:13 |
| th1a | We don't want the user navigating a matrix. | 20:13 |
| th1a | Although it is an interesting idea. | 20:13 |
| ignas | yes that is the problem of my approach | 20:14 |
| ignas | it makes the navigation a 4D thingie | 20:14 |
| th1a | Yes. | 20:14 |
| th1a | Which is a really clever way of thinking about it, but I don't think it is practical. | 20:14 |
| ignas | as for schools (so i would not forget) i was advised by gintas to postpone the visit to some school in lithuania for at least a couple of weeks as 09-01 is the day a schoolyear starts so all schools will be very very busy | 20:15 |
| th1a | OK... | 20:15 |
| ignas | yes it would work out for me but not for someone who hasn't used the system | 20:15 |
| ignas | temp tabs would become an "advanced user" productivity feature | 20:15 |
| ignas | not useful for common folk | 20:15 |
| ignas | :/ | 20:16 |
| th1a | So when we went through the use cases at the Sprint, it seemed like having tabs for the big application modules worked, | 20:16 |
| th1a | but a common use case is that you're looking at your gradebook, say, at a kid and you want to know his phone number, say, and you want to get it by clicking on the name. | 20:16 |
| ignas | i don't know, i think that they will be used so rarely that it would not hurt clicking on dashboard and selecting a module from there | 20:16 |
| ignas | YMMV though | 20:16 |
| th1a | That to me is the temporary tab use case. | 20:17 |
| ignas | ? | 20:17 |
| ignas | isn't it easier to click on a person, then click on "show personal info" and then click "back" button twice ? | 20:18 |
| *** didymo has quit IRC | 20:18 | |
| ignas | how do you imagine a TTab would work in that usecase ? | 20:18 |
| th1a | I click on the student's name, and the next page view is info about the student in a temporary tab. | 20:19 |
| ignas | why a tab ? | 20:19 |
| ignas | you click on a student and you see his info | 20:19 |
| th1a | Then I click the "X" to dismiss the temporary tab and go back to the gradebook, or I just click on the gradebook tab to go back to the gradebook and leave the temporary tab there. | 20:19 |
| ignas | oh | 20:19 |
| th1a | Well... which tab am I under when I'm looking at the student's info? | 20:20 |
| *** gintas has quit IRC | 20:20 | |
| ignas | so every object would have it's own TTab view | 20:20 |
| th1a | I'd argue that this is something particular to persons, | 20:20 |
| th1a | although Paul wanted to use them much more freely in CanDo. | 20:20 |
| ignas | i can't really reason about the usage without usecases like the one you have described | 20:21 |
| ignas | as it is implementable and not in a such difficult way, but i am not sure how it would scale to different usecases | 20:21 |
| th1a | Well... the think is we worked thought all these use cases in detail at the sprint... | 20:21 |
| ignas | :/ | 20:22 |
| th1a | So perhaps you should just take my word for it. | 20:22 |
| ignas | you see implementation depends on usecases very much ... | 20:22 |
| ignas | i can do it so it would work for schooltool, if it won't be good enough for pcardune ... | 20:23 |
| th1a | The current goal is to solidify the design we came up with at the sprint. | 20:24 |
| ignas | you mean - user interface design ? | 20:24 |
| th1a | I mean, to get the code underlying the ui design solidified, | 20:25 |
| th1a | not so much changing the ui design. | 20:25 |
| ignas | from my viewpoint it is easier to change the code than change the way UI works ... | 20:26 |
| th1a | Well, I'm hoping it is fairly easy. | 20:27 |
| ignas | what is ? code or UI? | 20:28 |
| ignas | sorry i am slow today ... got too many things bubbling in my head ... | 20:28 |
| ignas | what is easy? | 20:28 |
| th1a | Cleaning up the code. | 20:28 |
| ignas | not cleaning up, rewriting it so it would suit more usecases that will come up for cando | 20:29 |
| ignas | i am going for the "looks like screenshots i saw, works the way albertas, you and pcardune described it" | 20:30 |
| ignas | instead of sticking to some plan for the underlying architecture | 20:30 |
| ignas | now i am not sure if it's what you wanted though | 20:32 |
| th1a | I think we're on the same page. | 20:33 |
| th1a | I'm ok with, say, changing the implementation to use URLs instead of session varibles. | 20:33 |
| th1a | What started this conversation, though, was vidas's skin with the tabs and buttons in the same row, which is a change in the UI that doesn't work for other use cases. | 20:35 |
| ignas | that's fixable | 20:35 |
| th1a | I know. | 20:35 |
| ignas | it's just one of the ways to do it | 20:35 |
| th1a | All I'm saying is, don't spend time rearranging the UI elements. | 20:35 |
| *** thisfred has quit IRC | 20:35 | |
| th1a | They're where we want them. | 20:35 |
| ignas | the problem is that i have to put the date and the date widget somewhere in there too ... | 20:36 |
| ignas | so there were some more ideas :) | 20:36 |
| ignas | i am working on the calendaring at that time though | 20:36 |
| ignas | and vidas is doing some mockups | 20:36 |
| ignas | as well as adding the date widget | 20:37 |
| th1a | OK... basically, you've got the whole main well of the page at your disposal, plus the sidebar. | 20:37 |
| ignas | well, i kind of need the date to be seen not just in the calendar but in some more pages too ... | 20:37 |
| ignas | what i mean is that the date actually is a part of the navigation | 20:37 |
| ignas | like "weekly" "monthly" buttons | 20:37 |
| *** mgedmin has quit IRC | 20:39 | |
| th1a | Well... I see your point, but the buttons in that bar can only do so much. | 20:39 |
| ignas | yes i know, they will get moved to the row under tabs | 20:40 |
| th1a | In fact, the thing I like about Vidas's mockup with two rows of tabs is that it keeps clear that only one thing in the button row can be selected. | 20:40 |
| th1a | Right. | 20:40 |
| th1a | That's fine. | 20:40 |
| ignas | just that having them up there makes it look better ;) (while i understand that it won't work out that well) | 20:41 |
| ignas | as for tabs vs buttons, i think tabs will probably be nicer | 20:42 |
| ignas | even though it's a second row | 20:42 |
| ignas | it just isn't that evil in this case ... | 20:43 |
| th1a | Yes, it doesn't look too bad. | 20:45 |
| th1a | OK, I'm going in to school now, and I haven't figured out how to tunnel IRC through their firewall yet, so I'll talk to you later, ignas. | 20:50 |
| ignas | ok | 20:51 |
| ignas | i'll go home soon anyway | 20:51 |
| ignas | so see you tomorow i guess | 20:51 |
| ignas | it's late in here ... | 20:51 |
| th1a | Yes, I'm stuck in nocturnal mode, too... | 20:52 |
| *** jinty has quit IRC | 20:54 | |
| *** Aiste has quit IRC | 20:56 | |
| *** ignas has quit IRC | 20:56 | |
| *** gintas has joined #schooltool | 21:03 | |
| *** th1a has quit IRC | 21:10 | |
| *** ignas has joined #schooltool | 21:16 | |
| *** mgedmin has joined #schooltool | 21:18 | |
| *** ignas has quit IRC | 21:23 | |
| *** gintas has quit IRC | 21:48 | |
| *** Aiste has joined #schooltool | 21:52 | |
| *** th1a has joined #schooltool | 22:38 | |
| *** th1a__ has joined #schooltool | 23:23 | |
| *** th1a_ has quit IRC | 23:31 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!