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| ignas | th1a, pcardune: ayt ? | 16:49 |
|---|---|---|
| pcardune | ignas: yes | 16:58 |
| ignas | pcardune: maybe you know when is the date on which schooltool is going to be released ? | 16:58 |
| pcardune | i'm afraid I don't know | 16:59 |
| ignas | i see | 16:59 |
| ignas | now about these | 16:59 |
| ignas | navigation macros/ session thingies that you want | 16:59 |
| ignas | the thing that troubles me is that a lot of usecases for these things are in CanDo application, and the only usecase for schooltool is "make attendance reports use the same timespan that is seen on calendar" | 17:00 |
| ignas | creating a good abstraction out of a single use-case is not something i am confident about :/ | 17:01 |
| ignas | i will now try to describe an idea of mine so i would be sure we are talking about same things ... | 17:02 |
| ignas | have you seen/used google calendar | 17:02 |
| ignas | ? | 17:03 |
| pcardune | ignas: a little bit yes | 17:04 |
| ignas | schooltool at the moment has "current date" stored in the session, so if you will navigate to some other view and then click on "my calendar" | 17:04 |
| ignas | you will see the same day you were looking at | 17:04 |
| pcardune | right | 17:05 |
| ignas | and this is *very confusing* | 17:05 |
| pcardune | i agree | 17:05 |
| ignas | while google calendar does the same | 17:05 |
| ignas | and it is not confusing at all | 17:05 |
| pcardune | he he he | 17:05 |
| ignas | why ? :) | 17:05 |
| ignas | because google calendar is always showing you "where you are" | 17:05 |
| ignas | you can always see a small calendar that has the "day", "week", "month" you are looking at marked | 17:06 |
| pcardune | and also, google calendar does say at the top "Today" on every day of the month | 17:06 |
| ignas | independently from the view | 17:06 |
| pcardune | does not* | 17:06 |
| ignas | so if we are going to store something in a session | 17:06 |
| ignas | it should be always visible to our users | 17:06 |
| ignas | and possibly even modifiable independently from the view | 17:06 |
| ignas | was this what you meant by "abstraction for storing stuff in session" + "navigation macros for days/months" ? | 17:07 |
| ignas | as in such case it would be a pretty specific task | 17:07 |
| ignas | adding date/view_mode fidgets as a part of overall navigation | 17:08 |
| ignas | so users would always know what kind of view they are using and why suddenly their attendance report is "monthly" | 17:08 |
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| pcardune | right | 17:09 |
| pcardune | that is what I meant | 17:09 |
| pcardune | ignas: Of course, some views don't use the calendar at all, so the widget should only be available on relevant views | 17:10 |
| ignas | pcardune: not sure about it | 17:10 |
| pcardune | mainly it's a consideration of how much space such a widget would take up | 17:11 |
| ignas | as i would like date and date-range be a part of "where I am at the moment" | 17:11 |
| ignas | even if it is not important in some particular case | 17:11 |
| pcardune | well, like google, when you switch to gmail from calendar, there is no more date widget | 17:12 |
| ignas | well these 2 are different applications | 17:12 |
| ignas | so you are literaly going from 1 application to another | 17:13 |
| ignas | it even opens in a new window | 17:13 |
| ignas | so when you go back you don't even expect to get to the same place you were | 17:13 |
| pcardune | if we can make a widget that is unobtrusive and that can be hidden, then it's find with me if it stays with main navigation | 17:14 |
| pcardune | s/find/fine | 17:14 |
| ignas | hidden by javascript you mean ? | 17:14 |
| pcardune | sure | 17:15 |
| pcardune | actually, not even javascript | 17:16 |
| pcardune | just store in the session whether it is hidden or shown | 17:16 |
| pcardune | and have a little button to "expand" it | 17:16 |
| ignas | hmm | 17:16 |
| pcardune | and some pages can ignore what the session says, so for example, the widget is *always* shown on the calendar | 17:17 |
| pcardune | regardless of what is stored in the session | 17:17 |
| ignas | not sure i would like this as a user | 17:18 |
| ignas | not that the widget will take up that much space | 17:18 |
| ignas | half of the row breadcrumbs are using | 17:19 |
| ignas | or something like that | 17:19 |
| pcardune | that's fine | 17:19 |
| ignas | even if more i'd position it in the top not on the left i think | 17:20 |
| pcardune | the only thing is that it doesn't make sense on some views | 17:20 |
| ignas | well, it's an anchor, so you know for sure that if you click on "gradebook" | 17:20 |
| ignas | then click on "calendar" | 17:21 |
| ignas | you return to the same place | 17:21 |
| ignas | because the date widget did not change | 17:21 |
| ignas | if it get's hidden | 17:21 |
| ignas | some users expect it to reset | 17:21 |
| pcardune | that's true | 17:21 |
| ignas | some users expect it to stay the same | 17:21 |
| ignas | always showing it - makes it comfortable | 17:21 |
| ignas | you are not afraid that you will lose the state | 17:22 |
| ignas | and not anoyed that clicking on "my calendar" is not showing today | 17:22 |
| pcardune | ok, you've convinced me | 17:22 |
| ignas | now for the "redirector" | 17:28 |
| ignas | we want to have separate modes for views | 17:28 |
| ignas | so that "report.html" would use different template/ view class for every mode | 17:29 |
| ignas | mode being daily, weekly, mothly, yearly | 17:29 |
| ignas | with some convenient way to register those views | 17:29 |
| ignas | and fallback if a view for that particular mode is not found | 17:30 |
| ignas | so one would write 4 views for attendance and register them in some magic way and that's all | 17:31 |
| ignas | i am leaning to having a named multi adapter (IBrowserRequest, IViewMode, IAttendance, name="report.html") instead of a view | 17:32 |
| ignas | adding a zcml directive if that becomes too verbose | 17:32 |
| ignas | and hooking into view lookup | 17:32 |
| ignas | though that's not a final idea | 17:33 |
| ignas | pcardune: what do you think ? | 17:33 |
| pcardune | ignas: at first thought, that sounds good to me | 17:49 |
| pcardune | some modes may have multiple views within them | 17:49 |
| pcardune | like reports | 17:50 |
| pcardune | there would have to be additional navigation with these modes to look through the different views | 17:50 |
| pcardune | Some modes attach to one view class, but others like report attach to multiple view class -- or rather, view classes implementing a certain marker interface | 17:51 |
| ignas | ? | 17:52 |
| ignas | sounds like something overcomplicated ;) | 17:52 |
| ignas | can you tell me a usecase | 17:52 |
| pcardune | reports it the main one | 17:54 |
| pcardune | let's say you are on the attendance tab | 17:54 |
| pcardune | in the reports mode | 17:54 |
| pcardune | you might want to generate reports for a particular student + multiple sections, all students + all sections, one section + multiple students | 17:54 |
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| pcardune | a teacher will only be able to generate reports within a certain scope, whereas administrators can generate more reports | 17:55 |
| pcardune | in greater scopes (schoolwide) | 17:55 |
| pcardune | this might be accomplished with subviews | 17:56 |
| pcardune | any mode that has more that needs to have more than one view can just use sub views. Then the top level navigation architecture wouldn't have to worry about multiple views in the same mode | 17:57 |
| ignas | well, the only problem i see is the fallback | 17:58 |
| ignas | let's see | 17:58 |
| ignas | you have an "attendance/report.html" | 17:58 |
| ignas | your date widget is set to | 17:58 |
| ignas | 2006-06-01 - 2006-06-30 | 17:59 |
| ignas | so you are seeing the monthly attendance report | 17:59 |
| ignas | then you go to some report_foo.html | 17:59 |
| ignas | that is available only for monthly mode | 17:59 |
| ignas | and then you use the date widget to turn on "weekly mode" | 18:00 |
| ignas | what should you see ? | 18:00 |
| ignas | the default view for "weekly" + "attendance" ? | 18:00 |
| pcardune | yes | 18:00 |
| ignas | in that case everything is fine | 18:00 |
| ignas | i mean you just register the special view for "attendance" + "monthly" call it "report_boo.html" | 18:01 |
| ignas | and that's all | 18:01 |
| ignas | now as for the "mode" | 18:02 |
| ignas | now we have these "variables" | 18:02 |
| ignas | Date, "daily/weekly/monthly/yearly", "calendar/attendance/gradebook/ ..." (a.k.a. context) | 18:03 |
| ignas | anything else ? | 18:03 |
| pcardune | i'm not sure what you mean by variables? | 18:03 |
| ignas | things from which "what you see" depends on | 18:04 |
| ignas | date + mode are stored in session | 18:04 |
| ignas | calendar/attendance/gradebook | 18:04 |
| ignas | are the context of the view's | 18:04 |
| ignas | "view name" is stored in url ... | 18:05 |
| pcardune | ok yes, calendar/attendance/gradebook are not stored in the session | 18:05 |
| ignas | i just want to be sure i know of all moving parts ... | 18:05 |
| ignas | so anything i forgot ? | 18:06 |
| pcardune | i dont think so | 18:06 |
| pcardune | oh, i know | 18:07 |
| pcardune | we want to easily extend what kind of things are stored in the session | 18:07 |
| pcardune | we may want to store "person" | 18:07 |
| pcardune | if you are entering grades for a particular person, then switch to attendance, you would want to see attendance for that specific person | 18:08 |
| ignas | i am a bit afraid of storing things in "session" | 18:08 |
| ignas | it is like global variables | 18:08 |
| ignas | useful and dangerous at the same time | 18:08 |
| pcardune | true | 18:09 |
| ignas | so making it easy | 18:09 |
| pcardune | we need to wrap it up in something that contains it nicely | 18:09 |
| ignas | is something i don't like, but if it is required ... | 18:09 |
| pcardune | what we really want is to store only one object in the session, which manages everything else we want to store | 18:09 |
| ignas | pcardune: won't that make the system too coupled ? | 18:10 |
| ignas | if calendaring depends on that "sotrage" | 18:10 |
| ignas | and the storage explicitly defines something from "attendance" as one of the stored things | 18:11 |
| ignas | that would create a two way dependency between those modules | 18:11 |
| pcardune | storage should not explicitly define anything | 18:11 |
| ignas | so you just want a nicer interface for zope3 session? | 18:12 |
| pcardune | yeah | 18:12 |
| pcardune | :) | 18:12 |
| ignas | is the current interface so ugly ? | 18:12 |
| pcardune | not really, it's just like annotations before they had those nice adapter factories | 18:13 |
| ignas | i'll look into it then | 18:14 |
| pcardune | I only learned about sessions for the first time during the sprint | 18:14 |
| pcardune | so i'm certain my knowledge of them is incomplete | 18:14 |
| ignas | btw maybe you can imagine some way to indicate the "selected" person in the UI ? | 18:15 |
| ignas | if there is one selected | 18:15 |
| pcardune | I guess that might end up being another widget like with calendars | 18:17 |
| pcardune | i'm not asking you to include support for storing "person" | 18:18 |
| pcardune | I just want the ability to extend what is stored in other packages... like cando | 18:18 |
| ignas | i see | 18:18 |
| ignas | i just want as much of the information stored in the session to be visible as possible without cluttering UI too much | 18:19 |
| ignas | which leads to | 18:19 |
| ignas | if showing this bit in the UI will clutter it - do we really want store it in session ? | 18:19 |
| pcardune | absolutely | 18:20 |
| pcardune | (as in, i absolutely understand your point, not we should absolutely store it in the session :) | 18:21 |
| ignas | :) | 18:21 |
| ignas | not that we should not, just that storing something in session is an important decision | 18:21 |
| ignas | as someone said "we seem to be in violent agreement" ;) | 18:22 |
| pcardune | yes | 18:22 |
| ignas | i am a bit afraid that there is not enough time to implement everything | 18:23 |
| ignas | as i don't know the exact deadline | 18:23 |
| ignas | i will be working pretty much solo on this contract | 18:23 |
| ignas | and i am going away for a week this month (vacation) | 18:24 |
| pcardune | well, i'd love to help out, but I'm leaving for school in a week, and have tons of CanDo stuff to do until then | 18:24 |
| pcardune | i'll certainly be paying attention to your checkins | 18:24 |
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| ignas | th1a_: ping | 18:48 |
| pcardune | ignas: do you know how schooltool runs under apache? | 18:52 |
| pcardune | how the traverser can change the base url of the site? | 18:53 |
| ignas | Zope3 has virtual hosting facility | 18:53 |
| pcardune | what's the easiest way to utilize it? | 18:54 |
| ignas | you provide a base URL in the real URL | 18:54 |
| ignas | let me see | 18:54 |
| th1a_ | ignas: pong. | 18:55 |
| ignas | th1a_: when is the physical deadline for the UI work ? | 18:56 |
| th1a_ | ignas: Well... right now everything seems up in the air. | 18:57 |
| ignas | th1a_: having something even hazy would help me to plan the scope of the contract better ... | 18:58 |
| th1a_ | I'd say one month from now, hazily. | 18:58 |
| ignas | that get's us something like 3 developer weeks (hopefully will have to talk to Aiste first) | 19:00 |
| ignas | missing comma before will | 19:00 |
| Aiste | ignas: you can have vidas and part of Justas for that ;) | 19:01 |
| th1a_ | Mark and I have a conference call next week to work out some plans on our side. | 19:01 |
| Aiste | hi th1a | 19:02 |
| th1a_ | Hi Aiste. | 19:02 |
| th1a_ | I think my original response that you should talk to Mark directly was the right one. | 19:03 |
| th1a_ | I seem to have only added confusion to the process. | 19:03 |
| Aiste | well, it is your job to negotiate and discuss these things with Mark | 19:03 |
| Aiste | that's why he hired you | 19:04 |
| th1a_ | At least, I was confused about what we were paying you previously. I'm not sure if he was confused. | 19:04 |
| Aiste | and there was a reason why I asked for the rate that i asked for | 19:04 |
| th1a_ | I understand your reasons. | 19:04 |
| Aiste | I remember you saying that it shouldn't be a problem to get this rate when we spoke | 19:05 |
| th1a_ | Well, you see, Mark really didn't hire me to negotiate with you. | 19:06 |
| th1a_ | As far as I am concerned it would be ok, but it isn't my decision. | 19:06 |
| th1a_ | I really have no say at all. | 19:06 |
| Aiste | I did not say, that you have to negotiate with me | 19:09 |
| Aiste | mark hired you to manage this project | 19:09 |
| Aiste | sorting out rates and payments is part of project management | 19:10 |
| th1a_ | What I'm saying is that I told you I couldn't negotiate with you initially. Somehow I got roped into doing it anyhow, which was a mistake on my part. | 19:11 |
| th1a_ | SchoolTool just isn't structured like a normal project. | 19:12 |
| th1a_ | You and I are both paid directly by Mark. | 19:12 |
| th1a_ | I don't actually have a bank account for SchoolTool that I can spend as I see fit. | 19:12 |
| th1a_ | It is all Mark's personal money. | 19:13 |
| th1a_ | Anyhow, I'll have a definitive answer for you next week. | 19:16 |
| Aiste | that's good enough for me | 19:16 |
| th1a_ | OK. | 19:16 |
| Aiste | and besides, I don't think there is such thing as a "normal" project in open source world | 19:16 |
| Aiste | but all of them have certain rules | 19:17 |
| th1a_ | None of these roles are well defined. | 19:17 |
| ignas | rules/roles ? | 19:23 |
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| ignas | th1a_: what do you mean by "Use placeholders for non-existent teacher views and views for other users." ? | 20:03 |
| ignas | are we not going to release the schooltool with updated UI ? | 20:03 |
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