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| * th1a shuffles some papers around... | 16:28 | |
| ignas | hi | 16:29 |
|---|---|---|
| alga | hi | 16:29 |
| mgedmin | hi | 16:29 |
| th1a | hi guys. | 16:30 |
| th1a | jinty? srichter? | 16:30 |
| th1a | Do people in Vilnius root for Ukraine? | 16:31 |
| alga | root as in "become settled or established and stable in one's residence"? | 16:32 |
| th1a | Oh... | 16:32 |
| th1a | Root as in hope they win? | 16:33 |
| ignas | win what ? | 16:33 |
| th1a | The World Cup? | 16:33 |
| ignas | what cup ? | 16:33 |
| mgedmin | is that a drinking competition? | 16:33 |
| alga | th1a: you should have noticed, we're not much into sports :-) | 16:33 |
| alga | pale programmer types | 16:33 |
| th1a | Well, yes, but here in the US we're given the impression that every single person outside the US is into the World Cup. | 16:34 |
| th1a | Also, spending time at my parents involves watching LOTS of sports on TV. | 16:34 |
| th1a | Anyhow, down to business. | 16:35 |
| th1a | ignas: How does the initial password setting work? | 16:35 |
| ignas | can't tell exactly, vidas did that, will look at his checkins now | 16:36 |
| th1a | Ah... | 16:36 |
| ignas | pass --restore-manager password | 16:37 |
| ignas | or "-r -" | 16:37 |
| ignas | and type in the password then | 16:37 |
| ignas | (if you don't want the password logged) | 16:38 |
| th1a | pass -r (password) | 16:38 |
| th1a | ? | 16:38 |
| th1a | pass -r - | 16:38 |
| th1a | ? | 16:38 |
| ignas | ./schooltool-server.py -r - | 16:39 |
| ignas | or ./schooltool-server.py -r myNewPassword | 16:39 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:39 |
| * ignas is looking for the place default is set in | 16:39 | |
| ignas | it's in "src/schooltool/app/main.py" and it should still be "schooltool" for a fresh checkout | 16:40 |
| th1a | Hm... OK. | 16:41 |
| th1a | Anyhow, let's talk about what's coming next. | 16:41 |
| th1a | Did my UI email make any sense? | 16:42 |
| ignas | yes it did | 16:43 |
| ignas | i had similar ideas | 16:43 |
| th1a | ignas: Good. | 16:43 |
| th1a | I'm not sure how hard switching to tabs will be. | 16:43 |
| th1a | What do you think? | 16:44 |
| ignas | technically not very difficult i think, but thinking of what should be in the views as well as rewriting of functional tests will take time | 16:44 |
| th1a | Oh crap. Yes it will probably break a million tests. | 16:45 |
| th1a | Ug. | 16:45 |
| ignas | well, depends, don't think that it will be very difficult to fix, though if we change the paths users are taking through the system | 16:45 |
| ignas | we will have to modify tests to resemble that | 16:45 |
| ignas | that is to be expected with test driven development | 16:46 |
| th1a | Yes, there is nothing you can do about breaking tests when you change things. | 16:46 |
| th1a | Also, we'll have to test the different views presented to different users. | 16:47 |
| * jinty arrives late and in a rush | 16:47 | |
| th1a | hi jinty | 16:47 |
| ignas | Zope3 broke a lot of tests again | 16:47 |
| ignas | :/ | 16:47 |
| th1a | Oh, no. | 16:48 |
| ignas | and the bug report that involved outlook seems to be genuine | 16:48 |
| jinty | hi th1a | 16:48 |
| th1a | The bug report seems to be unreadable in Gmail. | 16:48 |
| ignas | we still do have buggy timezone handling in weekly/monthly views apparently | 16:48 |
| th1a | ignas: Do you understand the problem? | 16:49 |
| ignas | yes | 16:49 |
| * ignas can reproduce it | 16:49 | |
| * ignas can fix it | 16:49 | |
| th1a | OK. We should add that to the next contract. | 16:50 |
| th1a | Lets discuss the alpha while jinty is here. | 16:51 |
| jinty | ah | 16:52 |
| jinty | yeah, you want a another one right? | 16:52 |
| th1a | Well... it would be nice to have one without broken tests. | 16:52 |
| th1a | I just installed it on my laptop and didn't reproduce my password problem. | 16:53 |
| th1a | I don't know what might have caused it before. | 16:53 |
| jinty | It was a silly broke test that I decided to ignore | 16:53 |
| th1a | But I guess we should assume it was some kind of crack-smoking freak error. | 16:53 |
| th1a | So at this point we have other tests breaking in Zope 3, and we are probably better off just "releasing" what we've got? | 16:54 |
| jinty | The broken test in the alpha2 is not serious | 16:54 |
| jinty | but making anoter alpha with the broken tests we have from zope right now would probably not be a very good idea | 16:55 |
| th1a | Right. I just thought it was bad form to go through all this test driven development and then have a release with a trivial broken test. | 16:55 |
| ignas | problem is that Zope3 full text indexing is slightly broken | 16:56 |
| ignas | it can't do some queries | 16:56 |
| ignas | like "a" | 16:56 |
| ignas | or *a* | 16:56 |
| ignas | longer queries work fine | 16:56 |
| ignas | unless they are complex and wrong like "(foo) bar" | 16:57 |
| ignas | in which case user gets a traceback | 16:57 |
| alga | :-\ | 16:57 |
| th1a | OK. So I'll take some screenshots and announce the release later today. | 16:58 |
| jinty | th1a: I think that as long as we can justify why a broken test is a false positive, we are still doint test driven development. | 16:58 |
| th1a | jinty: I was thinking of appearances more than anything else. | 16:58 |
| jinty | th1a: this was a really freaky case where the form of the version number was breaking a test.... | 16:58 |
| jinty | th1a: yeah | 16:59 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:59 |
| th1a | So jinty's work is done on that. | 16:59 |
| th1a | On alpha2. | 16:59 |
| ignas | jinty: not the form, the query is *a* | 16:59 |
| th1a | Does *a* mean "all "a"'s on the page? | 17:00 |
| ignas | i'd even go as far as fix that file or comment that testcase so users would not see it | 17:00 |
| ignas | th1a: no it should mean - find all users that have "a" in their name | 17:00 |
| jinty | ignas: I was talking about something different, if the version number contains "alpha" then "alpha is in browser.contents" is always true | 17:01 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:01 |
| ignas | jinty: oh, that one | 17:01 |
| ignas | th1a: but it breaks on this case as "alpha" matches and "beta" does not | 17:01 |
| th1a | Hm... | 17:02 |
| th1a | OK. Let's get back to discussing the UI. | 17:02 |
| ignas | ok :) | 17:02 |
| th1a | So navigationally, here is what I'm picturing. | 17:02 |
| th1a | If I'm looking at a section, I can switch from the calendar to attendance to gradebook for that section by hitting the tabs. | 17:03 |
| th1a | Or if I'm looking at the gradebook, I can switch from one section's gradebook to another by hitting the section links in navigation. | 17:03 |
| th1a | But I want the application to remember that I'm looking at gradebooks, | 17:04 |
| th1a | and take me from one gradebook to another, not always to the "homepage" of the section. | 17:04 |
| th1a | Make sense? | 17:04 |
| ignas | yes | 17:05 |
| th1a | That's doable, right? | 17:05 |
| ignas | yes | 17:06 |
| th1a | OK section refactoring... | 17:06 |
| th1a | Change the api so that it handles group enrollments properly. | 17:07 |
| ignas | properly meaning ? | 17:07 |
| th1a | Essentially add a method that always gives you a list of students in the section. | 17:07 |
| ignas | oh | 17:07 |
| ignas | that | 17:07 |
| ignas | abstract away subgroups and direct members | 17:08 |
| ignas | and have an accessor that would allow manipulating the real list of members | 17:08 |
| th1a | Also, sections have irrelevant meta-data that needs to be cleaned up. | 17:08 |
| ignas | what meta-data exactly ? | 17:09 |
| th1a | I don't think the user should have to enter an id or code to create a section. | 17:10 |
| th1a | Since sections often don't have those. | 17:10 |
| th1a | My discussions of this with bskahan long ago just seemed to lead to more meta-data, not less. | 17:11 |
| ignas | i see | 17:11 |
| th1a | So a user should optionally be able to add an id, title, description when creating a section, | 17:12 |
| th1a | but generally I think that's a screen you click through. | 17:12 |
| ignas | so you want something like an "Add Section" button that would lead directly to instructor selection view ? | 17:13 |
| th1a | Not even that. | 17:13 |
| ignas | what about displaying of sections to a user ? what things identify a section ? | 17:14 |
| ignas | how teachers discern between 2 sections ? how students do that ? | 17:14 |
| th1a | Ah yes, that's another thing srichter and I were digging around in. | 17:14 |
| th1a | It seems like it is surprisingly hard to identify a section by its meeting time. | 17:14 |
| th1a | Based on how timetables work. | 17:14 |
| ignas | well, in lithuanian usecase it would not be that convenient to have a section for each meeting time i'd say | 17:15 |
| th1a | ignas: What? You have to have a section for each meeting time. | 17:17 |
| ignas | at least when i was a student important things for me were that i am having a "Math lesson" in university it's "Math in 405" | 17:17 |
| ignas | th1a: no, i don't | 17:17 |
| ignas | th1a: what i mean - schooltool supports both usecases now | 17:18 |
| th1a | We're obviously thinking of different things. | 17:18 |
| ignas | th1a: indeed | 17:18 |
| th1a | Anyhow, if you don't have a time based schedule, you're likely to want to see "Period A Math." | 17:18 |
| th1a | Can we do that? | 17:19 |
| ignas | yes we can | 17:19 |
| th1a | OK. Basically how it is represented has to change according to the role of the user. | 17:20 |
| ignas | from what i understand Math for 12 year olds will be caled differently form Math for 13 year olds | 17:20 |
| th1a | So for a teacher, you want the subject and time. | 17:20 |
| ignas | and this information will be stored in the Course name | 17:20 |
| th1a | The are different courses. | 17:20 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:21 |
| ignas | So teacher wants a Course, place, time | 17:21 |
| th1a | I should have said "course" instead of "subject." | 17:21 |
| ignas | stuedents might want Teacher name too (not sure about it) | 17:21 |
| th1a | I think time more than place. | 17:21 |
| th1a | Although that's another Lithuania/US difference. | 17:21 |
| th1a | Do the teachers come to you in Lithuania? | 17:21 |
| ignas | depends | 17:22 |
| ignas | we have both | 17:22 |
| ignas | bigger schools have pupils walking | 17:22 |
| ignas | smaller ones have teachers comming to them | 17:22 |
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| ignas | some have it mixed | 17:23 |
| ignas | I had in 6-7th grade | 17:23 |
| ignas | geography had it's own classroom | 17:23 |
| ignas | while math and simmilar stuff were going in the "our" classroom | 17:23 |
| th1a | Well, course and time are always useful (in the navigation menu) for teachers. | 17:23 |
| ignas | yes | 17:23 |
| ignas | and teachers know that "this one is for me" if they see it in theri views | 17:24 |
| th1a | And for students, for that matter. | 17:24 |
| th1a | For admins you need to add the teacher. | 17:24 |
| th1a | Actually I guess that pretty much covers the cases. | 17:24 |
| ignas | not really | 17:25 |
| ignas | i have just recalled one more | 17:25 |
| ignas | in my school teachers were teaching "Math for 9th grade" for 9a 9b 9c | 17:26 |
| ignas | and though the course is the same | 17:26 |
| ignas | it is important for a teacher "which homework assignment should i pull out, etc." | 17:26 |
| ignas | in lithuania it is important which Group of people are you lecturing to | 17:27 |
| ignas | for a teacher | 17:27 |
| th1a | Right, but they met different times, right? | 17:27 |
| ignas | yes | 17:27 |
| th1a | So course and time will usually be sufficient. | 17:27 |
| th1a | I guess you might have the same course meeting at the same time, but different sections during the week. | 17:28 |
| ignas | but seeing "Math 9th grade 8:00" "Math 9th grade 9:00" "Math 9th grade 10:00" | 17:28 |
| ignas | is not helpful | 17:28 |
| th1a | Why isn't that helpful? | 17:28 |
| ignas | i don't know whether 9a is comming to me or 9c | 17:28 |
| th1a | Well, that's a different problem. | 17:29 |
| th1a | I mean, | 17:29 |
| th1a | One question is what is the shortest useful title we can generate to use for navigation. | 17:29 |
| th1a | If you forget the location, or whatever, that can be noted elsewhere. The calendar, etc. | 17:30 |
| ignas | oh | 17:30 |
| th1a | I think we're ready to write some stories. | 17:31 |
| th1a | ignas: This'll be enough work for a contract, right? | 17:32 |
| ignas | this being "UI" + "sections" + "bugfix" ? | 17:33 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:33 |
| th1a | Seems like plenty to me. | 17:33 |
| ignas | yes indeed | 17:33 |
| ignas | what's the physical deadline for this ? | 17:33 |
| th1a | Well... end of July? | 17:34 |
| th1a | No later than that. | 17:35 |
| ignas | i'll try estimating with that in mind | 17:35 |
| ignas | i am afraid that the full UI story might be a bit too big as we will be leaving for europython next week | 17:36 |
| ignas | though i definitely want to make at least some improvements | 17:36 |
| ignas | like the "action" menu | 17:36 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:36 |
| th1a | OK. You should get started on the bugfixing if you've got time. | 17:37 |
| th1a | Which I guess is mostly the timezone bugs that have cropped up. | 17:38 |
| alga | th1a: re my visa... | 17:38 |
| alga | my visa interview is on July 12 | 17:38 |
| ignas | th1a: ok, i'll go on estimating and bugfixing then | 17:38 |
| th1a | alga: Do you need anything else from me? | 17:39 |
| alga | so I'll know for sure whether I'm going or not only then | 17:39 |
| alga | th1a: no, I'm fine, thanks | 17:39 |
| th1a | alga: OK. Good luck. | 17:39 |
| alga | the travel agents cannot reserve tickets for this long, so it seems I'll be hunting for last minute tickets to US | 17:40 |
| th1a | I can't believe that it is now easier to get into and out of Lithuania than the US. | 17:40 |
| th1a | How things have changed. | 17:40 |
| th1a | alga: OK, so I should be anticipating eating a more expensive flight than I anticipated. | 17:41 |
| th1a | It shouldn't be a problem. | 17:41 |
| th1a | Nothing to be done about it. | 17:41 |
| alga | depends... there's a better chance to grab a good deal too | 17:41 |
| th1a | alga: True. | 17:41 |
| th1a | Someone else doesn't get their visa and you get a cheap seat. | 17:42 |
| th1a | OK. I'll let you guys go. | 17:42 |
| th1a | Have a good week. | 17:42 |
| alga | you too | 17:42 |
| * th1a bangs the virtual gravel. | 17:42 | |
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| _pcardune | I hope I didn't miss *too* much at the meeting this morning | 21:17 |
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