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| pcardune | th1a: I'd just like to let you know that we (cando folks) are up and running for the rest of the summer | 15:54 |
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| pcardune | jinty: are you around? | 16:22 |
| jinty | pcardune: yep | 16:22 |
| pcardune | for some reason, when I get an svn log for the cando repositoy, the first revision number is 252? why not 1? | 16:23 |
| jinty | hmm interesting, let me see | 16:23 |
| pcardune | maybe because we converted it over from a cvs repository? | 16:23 |
| jinty | svn log svn+ssh://dev.schooltool.org/cando | 16:25 |
| jinty | gives me all the way back to revision 1 | 16:25 |
| jinty | which was the cvs import | 16:25 |
| pcardune | wait, what is dev.schooltool.org? is that the same as svn.schooltool.org? | 16:26 |
| jinty | yeah;) | 16:26 |
| jinty | I put that in my hosts file before svn.schooltool.org had a hostname | 16:27 |
| * jinty takes it out | 16:27 | |
| pcardune | that's interesting | 16:28 |
| jinty | s/hostname/domain name/ | 16:28 |
| pcardune | because when i do that in my checked out cando, it only goes to revision 252. Adding the server address gives me back to 1 aswell | 16:29 |
| pcardune | jinty: anyways, i tried this svn2bzr program, but it seems to stall at revision 241 for some reason | 16:30 |
| pcardune | at this point i'm willing to explore more options with svn. You said something about https? so people don't need ssh keys and the like? | 16:30 |
| jinty | interesting | 16:31 |
| jinty | yeah, you can set up apache to commit to your repository | 16:32 |
| jinty | then use the access control that comes with apache for fine grained access | 16:32 |
| jinty | which is password based as far as I know | 16:32 |
| jinty | over https hopefully makes the password secure | 16:33 |
| pcardune | I mean, i'd just like to have control over developer access myself. | 16:34 |
| jinty | ah i see | 16:35 |
| pcardune | we aren't organized enough to plan in advance and set people up with developer access before they need it | 16:35 |
| pcardune | it's more like, they show up, jeff tells me they are going to be developers, and then expects me to get them programming that very minute | 16:36 |
| jinty | btw I think svn2bzr fails because you have a binary file in the repo tagged as a text file | 16:36 |
| jinty | ok, If that is what you need, I'm sure we can organize something | 16:36 |
| pcardune | also, most folks don't have their own laptops and can't easily carry around their rsh keys | 16:36 |
| jinty | I don't know what it is yet | 16:37 |
| jinty | perhaps we could let you edit the apache access control list for the repository | 16:38 |
| jinty | i.e. limited admin rights | 16:38 |
| pcardune | yeah, that would be fine | 16:38 |
| jinty | pcardune: do you have full ssh access right now? | 16:39 |
| pcardune | no, i don't think i even have a shell account as far as I know | 16:39 |
| pcardune | oh actually, i do | 16:40 |
| jinty | so you can ssh in and get a shell? | 16:40 |
| pcardune | yeah | 16:40 |
| jinty | th1a: what do you think of the above? | 16:41 |
| pcardune | he must not be around | 16:43 |
| jinty | yeah, i'm pretty sure he's ok with it anyway | 16:44 |
| jinty | do you have a timeline for when you need this by?< | 16:44 |
| pcardune | yesterday :) | 16:46 |
| pcardune | (that's what jelkner always tells me) | 16:46 |
| jinty | This file, I think, is not correctly marked as a binary file: schooltoolfork/src/schoolbell/app/browser/resources/toolbar-background.png | 16:46 |
| jinty | pcardune: ok, be nice now;) | 16:47 |
| pcardune | i mean, I'm just going to say the sooner the better | 16:48 |
| pcardune | If you could do it today, that would be superb. Otherwise, by thursday | 16:48 |
| jinty | by thursday for sure then | 16:48 |
| pcardune | ok great | 16:49 |
| jinty | i'll see about today | 16:49 |
| pcardune | thanks a lot | 16:49 |
| jinty | np;) | 16:50 |
| pcardune | jinty: who are the current developers on schooltool (to whom should I ask questions regarding recent changes?) | 17:06 |
| jinty | i presume ignas or faassen | 17:08 |
| ignas | pcardune: and what is the question ? | 17:08 |
| pcardune | ignas: I'm trying to add a person, and it is giving me a component lookup error | 17:09 |
| pcardune | ComponentLookupError: (<InterfaceClass schooltool.person.interfaces.IPersonFactory>, '') | 17:09 |
| ignas | pcardune: where ? functional test, unit test ? | 17:09 |
| pcardune | through the web | 17:09 |
| pcardune | all the tests passed | 17:09 |
| ignas | ouch, have you svnuped everything ? | 17:09 |
| pcardune | yeah | 17:09 |
| ignas | and make update ? | 17:09 |
| pcardune | oh... i didn't know you had to do that | 17:10 |
| pcardune | i'll try that | 17:10 |
| mgedmin | usually you don't | 17:10 |
| mgedmin | 'make update' updates some non-schooltool packages | 17:10 |
| mgedmin | such as Zope 3 itself | 17:10 |
| mgedmin | (iirc) | 17:10 |
| pcardune | oh yeah, in that case i might as well have done make update (i updated zope manually | 17:11 |
| pcardune | yep, same error | 17:11 |
| ignas | i suspect faassen forgot to register some local utility | 17:11 |
| ignas | :/ | 17:11 |
| pcardune | it seems like IPersonFactory isn't even used for anything except the lookup | 17:12 |
| pcardune | yeah, that's what I was thinking | 17:12 |
| ignas | it is strange that functional tests pass | 17:12 |
| pcardune | that bad far is that the tests still pass | 17:12 |
| pcardune | :) | 17:12 |
| ignas | maybe you have some zcml files modified ? | 17:12 |
| pcardune | i meant to say "the bad part is that the tests still pass" | 17:12 |
| pcardune | nope, svn stat gives me nothing | 17:13 |
| ignas | let me check it out | 17:14 |
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| ignas | pcardune: weird, i can see the utility getting registered ... | 17:28 |
| pcardune | ignas: can you reproduce the problem on your setup? | 17:29 |
| ignas | yes | 17:29 |
| ignas | and i can see a bug | 17:29 |
| ignas | sample data is not hooked up with the factory | 17:29 |
| ignas | thus will break table.html and search.html views on person container | 17:29 |
| ignas | and the indentation is inconsistent with the rest of schooltool | 17:30 |
| ignas | and there is eeek trailing whitespace | 17:30 |
| pcardune | are you in the process of fixing it? | 17:48 |
| ignas | nope | 17:48 |
| ignas | can't find what's wrong ... | 17:48 |
| ignas | functional tests are passing :/ | 17:49 |
| ignas | the utility is getting registered twice | 17:49 |
| ignas | err | 17:51 |
| ignas | Data.fs | 17:51 |
| ignas | try renaming it | 17:51 |
| ignas | i think the utility is being set up on the creation of schooltool | 17:51 |
| ignas | and there is no evolution script that adds it to schooltool instances that have already been created | 17:51 |
| mgedmin | IPersonFactory is a *local* utility? | 17:52 |
| mgedmin | wow | 17:52 |
| mgedmin | isn't that, like, against the law? | 17:52 |
| ignas | YES | 17:53 |
| ignas | indeed | 17:53 |
| ignas | :/ | 17:53 |
| toxygen | what's IPersonFactory? | 17:56 |
| ignas | an interface used to lookup a local utility | 17:56 |
| ignas | that should be used when creating persons | 17:57 |
| pcardune | I'm not sure I totally understand the purpose of even having an IPersonFactory? when would you ever want to use a factory other than the Person constructor? | 17:58 |
| ignas | pcardune: there are 2 classes for Person | 17:58 |
| pcardune | oh really? (that too is news to me) | 17:58 |
| ignas | pcardune: utility is for having the ability to use one or the other based on configuration | 17:58 |
| ignas | pcardune: i don't like the idea, but faassen got licence to kill from th1a | 17:59 |
| ignas | a.k.a. we want to release beta more than to keep clean and easily pluggable codebase | 17:59 |
| pcardune | well, at this point, not being able to add a person through the web interface is a *HUGE* breakage | 18:00 |
| ignas | pcardune: remove your Data.fs | 18:01 |
| ignas | or rename it | 18:01 |
| ignas | faassen just forgot to add an evolution script | 18:01 |
| ignas | that's all | 18:01 |
| th1a | pcardune: I asked faassen to put together a demographics implementation quickly... it was never meant to be the permanant perfect solution. | 18:02 |
| pcardune | oh, ok then | 18:02 |
| th1a | Maybe it is a mistake in the short term... regardless it isn't a fundamental change in our design philosophy. | 18:02 |
| th1a | At most an experiment. | 18:03 |
| pcardune | that's fine then | 18:03 |
| th1a | And I thought some fresh perspective on SchoolTool was a good thing, so giving a little more free rein rather than knocking down every idea. | 18:04 |
| th1a | Although perhaps I have assembled a team with too many chiefs. | 18:05 |
| ignas | well we can't have a bottleneck (someone who approves and controls all the design decisions) forever and schooltool has to become a multi developer/team project that supports parallel development (when one developer can work on his part without interfering with others in any way) | 18:17 |
| ignas | but sometimes, just sometimes having common design direction would be a very nice thing | 18:17 |
| ignas | and working with mgedmin for more than a year i have gotten into habit that it is better to miss the estimate n fold rather than sacrifice a bit of quality :/ | 18:19 |
| ignas | which is not always feasible | 18:19 |
| th1a | Whether or not this is a matter of relative "quality" depends on your perspective. I don't think faassen thinks there is a quality problem. | 18:39 |
| th1a | There is a communication problem. | 18:39 |
| th1a | a) not enough discussion before faassen started writing code; | 18:40 |
| th1a | b) too much of a "BZZT! Wrong answer!" response when he did his first checkin. | 18:40 |
| th1a | My instinct is to just let people work, because my experience with software development is so narrow. | 18:42 |
| toxygen | is schooltool already stable? :) | 18:43 |
| ignas | toxygen: it doesn't crash if that's what you mean | 18:43 |
| ignas | toxygen: but internals are subject to jange without much notice | 18:44 |
| th1a | The calendaring is pretty stable. | 18:44 |
| th1a | Everything else is moving. | 18:44 |
| toxygen | ignas: i mean production-ready | 18:44 |
| ignas | toxygen: production of what ? :D | 18:44 |
| toxygen | ignas: production environment | 18:44 |
| toxygen | real school | 18:44 |
| toxygen | real people | 18:44 |
| th1a | For calendaring, I think so. | 18:44 |
| ignas | how big, how important ? | 18:44 |
| toxygen | you understand ;) | 18:45 |
| toxygen | ignas: 500 people | 18:45 |
| toxygen | ergh, 500 students i mean | 18:45 |
| ignas | toxygen: should work, the more you try the better it will get | 18:45 |
| toxygen | ignas: it become important after people get used to it | 18:45 |
| toxygen | is deleting of timetables already possible? | 18:46 |
| ignas | toxygen: yes | 18:46 |
| toxygen | nice :) | 18:46 |
| ignas | you should wait for a release though | 18:46 |
| toxygen | last time the faq said "create new one instead" iirc | 18:46 |
| toxygen | ignas: when's that? | 18:46 |
| ignas | don't know really | 18:46 |
| toxygen | i would like to start it on new school year (september) | 18:46 |
| th1a | Certainly before then. | 18:47 |
| toxygen | still not sure what to expect from it | 18:47 |
| th1a | We'll have another alpha real soon now... | 18:47 |
| toxygen | looking forward | 18:47 |
| th1a | In the fall we'll be actively testing demographics, attendance and gradebook. | 18:48 |
| toxygen | sounds very good | 18:48 |
| th1a | Calendaring should be stable. | 18:48 |
| ignas | i wouldn't call it stable, usable and useful yes, but i think nothing is stable unless it had at least 1000 users using it ... | 18:50 |
| ignas | if our users will get enraged about one or other part of schooltool we'll redesign it without much consideration about keeping it stable | 18:51 |
| th1a | True. | 18:52 |
| th1a | Usable is probably a better term. | 18:52 |
| toxygen | :) | 18:53 |
| ignas | toxygen: though the earlier you will start using it the more time you will give us to fix issues that are important to you | 18:54 |
| ignas | i am not sure what kind of turnaround we will have after september | 18:54 |
| ignas | how fast we will be able to fix bugs, optimize for performance etc. | 18:55 |
| toxygen | is there any school around using it? | 18:55 |
| toxygen | or we will be the first? | 18:55 |
| ignas | no there are no schools that are actually using it | 18:56 |
| th1a | I don't think it is literally true that no schools are using it at all. | 19:00 |
| th1a | I don't know that anyone is using it on a large scale though. | 19:00 |
| th1a | I doubt that. | 19:01 |
| th1a | There will be four partner schools actively testing in the fall. | 19:01 |
| toxygen | i'll try my best to implement it on this school | 19:01 |
| ignas | th1a: what i mean by using is using with real data and real users not just testing with some sample data | 19:04 |
| th1a | No, I mean, I think there are some schools who are using it for simple calendaring. | 19:11 |
| th1a | Maybe a dozen calendars. | 19:11 |
| th1a | That kind of thing. | 19:11 |
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| ignas | by the way, where is faassen ? | 20:29 |
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| jinty | pcardune: ayt? | 20:50 |
| dwoo | pcardune is out right now. | 21:00 |
| jinty | dwoo: thanks, let him know to check his mail when he's back... | 21:17 |
| th1a | Does anyone have the dates for the sprint in VA handy? | 21:53 |
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| pcardune | jinty: awesome! just got your email, will try to add myself now | 22:16 |
| jinty | pcardune: let me know, I'm going to go make pizza in a moment | 22:17 |
| pcardune | ok | 22:17 |
| * jinty goes to make some pizza... | 22:22 | |
| pcardune | jinty: sweet, it works | 22:23 |
| th1a | pcardune: Do you know when the VA sprint is at the end of July? | 22:57 |
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| pcardune | umm, let me look | 23:02 |
| pcardune | i have it down for july... | 23:02 |
| pcardune | 28th through the 30th | 23:02 |
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