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| Pupeno | Good morning. | 13:34 |
|---|---|---|
| povbot | /svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 6087: | 13:44 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Add the paths as sites as well as appending to sys.path. This is so that eggs can be found from instances. | 13:44 |
| faassen | Pupeno: hello | 14:17 |
| Pupeno | faassen: hi. | 14:17 |
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| * th1a shuffles some papers around. | 16:29 | |
| * mgedmin coughs discreetly | 16:29 | |
| * faassen messes around with a bag of gravel. | 16:29 | |
| th1a | Good day everyone. | 16:30 |
| th1a | srichter: You awake? | 16:30 |
| ignas | faassen, why can't i see students in the table.html view on demo.schooltool.org | 16:30 |
| ignas | ? | 16:30 |
| faassen | ignas: I don't know. let me look. | 16:30 |
| faassen | what's the demo password? | 16:31 |
| th1a | jinty: Are you here? There? | 16:31 |
| th1a | Oh... what permission do you need to see the table? | 16:31 |
| faassen | I have no idea. | 16:32 |
| ignas | faassen, student001, student001 | 16:32 |
| faassen | I think schooltool.view. | 16:32 |
| th1a | So a student or teacher should be able to see it? | 16:32 |
| faassen | I think so, but I haven't done anything about security whatsoever. | 16:33 |
| faassen | ignas: that's mysterious. | 16:33 |
| faassen | ignas: I haven't seen that failure condition before. weirdly enough the batching works. | 16:33 |
| ignas | search has that too | 16:33 |
| faassen | ignas: it could be a permissions issue. | 16:33 |
| ignas | or hasn't | 16:33 |
| th1a | It seems likely. | 16:34 |
| faassen | search doesn't work either. | 16:34 |
| faassen | perhaps zc.table filters and doesn't show things you aren't supposed to view. | 16:34 |
| faassen | though I thought it's all schooltool.view | 16:34 |
| faassen | you could try with a user that's got schooltool.edit | 16:34 |
| th1a | I don't recall the manager password. | 16:34 |
| th1a | jinty knows it. | 16:35 |
| faassen | I haven't done any testing concerning access with this code. | 16:35 |
| faassen | I've just tested with schooltool's manager user. | 16:35 |
| faassen | but it could be I have some thing tweaked wrong. still, mysterious that it doesn't show a thing. | 16:35 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 6088: | 16:35 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Refactored utility setup code so it's cleaner and less repetitious and is tested. | 16:35 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Use it to set up intids and catalog in the demographics package now. | 16:35 |
| faassen | there is no use of checkPermission in zc.table. | 16:36 |
| faassen | but it would be something more subtle is going on. | 16:37 |
| th1a | OK. I posted a quick note to the list so we don't confuse people further. | 16:37 |
| th1a | Well, let's go on, and have some updates. | 16:38 |
| th1a | faassen, would you like to go ahead? | 16:38 |
| th1a | It seems like things are progressing. | 16:38 |
| faassen | okay.. | 16:38 |
| faassen | well, I finally got some fairly uninterrupted time to work on schooltool the last weeks. | 16:38 |
| faassen | also, we hired someone to help me work on the project and he's been helping me the end of last week and will help for the coming period. | 16:39 |
| faassen | he's on the channel, Pupeno | 16:39 |
| th1a | That's good. | 16:39 |
| th1a | Hi Pupeno! | 16:39 |
| Pupeno | Hello everybody. | 16:39 |
| faassen | so part of my time this week was pairing with him; we had him flown over here (from Spain). he's back now but he's working with me still. | 16:40 |
| jinty | th1a: pong | 16:40 |
| faassen | for the time being he'll feed the patches through me and I'll review them before they get checked in. | 16:40 |
| th1a | jinty: Glad you could make it. | 16:40 |
| jinty | sorry i'm a bit late, lost track of time up writing a letter... | 16:41 |
| faassen | anyway, concerning the demographics work. | 16:41 |
| faassen | hm, lots of smaller UI tweaks that are still ongoing. | 16:41 |
| faassen | hooked in various new egg dependencies to get the catalog operational. | 16:42 |
| faassen | got the appropriate intids and catalog utilities installed. that was a lot of painful debugging as the schooltool setup procedure is somewhat unique. | 16:42 |
| th1a | Yes. | 16:42 |
| faassen | since then I've refactored the setup code further so we have an easy way to register utilities. | 16:43 |
| faassen | it's just been checked in as schooltool.utility | 16:43 |
| faassen | that is, local utilities. | 16:43 |
| faassen | anyway, got the search screen to work. | 16:43 |
| faassen | established a new widget for date entry (and noticed problems with it), and got a widget for password entry ported from document library. | 16:44 |
| jinty | this reminds me, we need to figure out if we want eggs to be downloaded and installed automatically for tarball users. | 16:44 |
| faassen | been moving some of the more generic UI related code (formlib stuff) into schooltool.skin | 16:44 |
| ignas | jinty, an interactive approach maybe ? make eggs? | 16:44 |
| * faassen coughs. | 16:44 | |
| faassen | anyway, I also sent a few comment and questions to the list. | 16:45 |
| faassen | I also started writing a document on my customization thoughts concerning schooltool with demographics in particular. | 16:45 |
| faassen | but I'm not quite happy with it all yet. | 16:45 |
| faassen | I want to discuss one topic here concerning utility-based customization. | 16:45 |
| faassen | we're preparing to replace the index.html of persons/ soon with the table.html based layout. | 16:46 |
| faassen | (independent from customization) | 16:46 |
| faassen | as we're almost at feature parity (plus got some features of our own) | 16:46 |
| faassen | first of course we need to reproduce the case of the mysteriously invisible table. | 16:47 |
| th1a | faassen: If you want to get into a longer discussion we should get POV's report first. | 16:47 |
| faassen | th1a: yes, let's do the rest first. anyway, I also want feedback from someone on the UI. | 16:47 |
| faassen | th1a: what columns are needed, myriads of UI tweaks, etc. | 16:48 |
| th1a | th1a: Do you have time after the meeting? | 16:48 |
| faassen | th1a: I presume th1a does, but I do too. :) | 16:48 |
| th1a | :-) | 16:48 |
| th1a | Talking to myself again. | 16:48 |
| faassen | I do that too. | 16:48 |
| faassen | anyway, that was my report. in summary, finally gaining some steam. | 16:48 |
| th1a | OK. ignas/mgedmin? | 16:48 |
| faassen | all the preparatory work is starting to show for itself. | 16:49 |
| Pupeno | what/who is POV ? | 16:49 |
| ignas | Programmers of Vilnius | 16:49 |
| faassen | Programmers of Vilnius, that's ignas and lots of people. | 16:49 |
| Pupeno | ok. | 16:49 |
| faassen | most people except th1a and srichter that do checkins. | 16:49 |
| ignas | me, mgedmin, vidas, gintas, alga, Aiste ... | 16:49 |
| faassen | right, endless amounts of lithuanians. great eurovision entry by the way. :) | 16:49 |
| ignas | :D | 16:49 |
| ignas | well, I have finished estimating and planning Access control story (at last) | 16:50 |
| ignas | we have implemented the core of the new security policy | 16:50 |
| ignas | created a branch for migration | 16:50 |
| ignas | form the old one to the new one | 16:50 |
| th1a | Hm... | 16:51 |
| ignas | and made functional tests pass (or commented outdated ACL view tests so we would not forget to replace them with new ones) | 16:51 |
| ignas | s/form/from | 16:51 |
| ignas | we are using the crowd model described by SteveA in the last europython | 16:51 |
| th1a | Have I lost my connection here? | 16:52 |
| ignas | with some parts tuned to be schooltool specific | 16:52 |
| ignas | ? | 16:52 |
| faassen | th1a: ignas is doing a lot of talking. | 16:52 |
| faassen | th1a, can you hear us? | 16:52 |
| th1a | Now I can. | 16:53 |
| ignas | thats kind of it | 16:54 |
| ignas | faassen, you can take a look at my last check in to get a grasp of what you have avoided ;) | 16:54 |
| th1a | Ah yes. You had told me about the crowds when I was in Vilnius. | 16:54 |
| faassen | ignas: what have I avoided? :) | 16:54 |
| th1a | ignas: How do you feel about the decision now? | 16:54 |
| ignas | th1a, same way gintas does - it's a lot of work, but it has to be done earlier than later | 16:55 |
| ignas | any delay would complicate matters even more | 16:55 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:55 |
| ignas | s/than/rather than/ | 16:55 |
| th1a | faassen: OK, so you have some concerns about utilities? | 16:56 |
| faassen | ignas: do you mean avoided work on the security policy or what? | 16:56 |
| faassen | ignas: I'm trying to figure out what I avoided. :) | 16:56 |
| th1a | I think that's what he meant. | 16:56 |
| ignas | faassen, yes :) | 16:56 |
| faassen | th1a: it's not really a concern. | 16:56 |
| th1a | Ideas? | 16:56 |
| faassen | ignas: I didn't avoid that actively. :) | 16:56 |
| faassen | well, it ties into the customization discussion. | 16:56 |
| faassen | it's a half-question. | 16:57 |
| faassen | anyway, customization by extension packages in Zope 3 can be done using a number of different strategies. | 16:57 |
| faassen | one strategy I'll call 'zcml overrides', the other strategy I'll call 'skin + local utilities' | 16:57 |
| faassen | though of course they're not mutually exclusive. | 16:57 |
| faassen | zcml overrides is the idea you have an extension package, you add a lot of extra ZCML, override existing ZCML in the core and perhaps even have to disable some ZCML in the core.. | 16:58 |
| mgedmin | I've tried zcml overrides and decided it is a death-trap | 16:58 |
| faassen | to override views, add annotations to effectively change the schema of content objects, etc. | 16:58 |
| faassen | yeah, I don't like zcml overrides either, though I'm also including 'zcml additions' | 16:58 |
| faassen | but any approach that really wants to use this is probably going to have to both add and override existing ZCML. | 16:59 |
| faassen | then there's the skin + local utilities approach. | 16:59 |
| faassen | I'm quite familiar with the local utilities pattern, as we use it in Silva, and CMF uses it too. | 16:59 |
| faassen | basically you have a 'core' schooltool that installs default utilities for various things. | 16:59 |
| faassen | (for instance, in case of demographics, creating 'person' objects) | 16:59 |
| faassen | and then you have an extension (Schooltool US, say) | 17:00 |
| faassen | that replaces the default local utility with one of its own, that makes sure that Schooltool US Person objects are created. | 17:00 |
| faassen | that's just one example. it could be any policy, not just object creation. | 17:00 |
| faassen | anyway, utilities can take care of content creation pluggability, skin tend to take care of user interface pluggability. | 17:01 |
| faassen | skins are of course also a familiar Zope 2 style pattern used in many contexts (CMF-based sites in particular) | 17:01 |
| faassen | anyway, I was just pondering the installation of extensions. | 17:01 |
| faassen | the advantage of a ZCML override approach is that you hook in the extension, done. | 17:01 |
| faassen | no ZODB changes needed. | 17:01 |
| faassen | but swapping in new local utilities takes ZODB changes. | 17:02 |
| faassen | and it's unclear what a good pattern for that is. does it need a UI? does it happen automatically when you start up schooltool? | 17:02 |
| faassen | anyway, these are points to consider. | 17:02 |
| th1a | Indeed. | 17:02 |
| faassen | what I'll do in any case is demonstrate the factory-utility based approach for Person objects in the schooltool core. | 17:03 |
| faassen | to control creation of Person objects centrally. | 17:03 |
| ignas | i was kind of thinking that overrides might be avoided most of the time by providing enough sockets/hooks to plug in | 17:03 |
| ignas | a.k.a. subscribers/viewlets | 17:03 |
| ignas | instead of overrides | 17:03 |
| tiredbones | BOOKMARK | 17:04 |
| faassen | that's something I hadn't thought of yet. I tried to study what's going on with viewlets in schooltool but I'm still somewhat lost. I get the basic idea. | 17:04 |
| faassen | but the implementation is an awful lot of ZCML. | 17:04 |
| faassen | which seems to feature schooltool-specific ZCML attributes too in the viewlet registration business, if I read the code right. | 17:04 |
| ignas | yes but it seems way friendlier on unit tests, and customizability | 17:04 |
| ignas | YMMV though | 17:05 |
| faassen | I agree that it would be more friendly than just plain ZCML overrides. | 17:05 |
| th1a | OK. We should probably move on. | 17:05 |
| th1a | But that's definitely something that will have to be worked out in the longer run. | 17:06 |
| faassen | right. | 17:06 |
| faassen | I'm also considering programmer friendliness. | 17:06 |
| faassen | while ZCML + viewlets + annotations are worthwhile technologies undoubtedly. | 17:06 |
| faassen | subclassing + skins are probably more familiar technologies for the average Python programmer. | 17:06 |
| faassen | anyway, we'll see. | 17:07 |
| th1a | I think some experimentation is justified. | 17:07 |
| th1a | Now... our upcoming alpha release. | 17:07 |
| jinty | er, I guess that's my cue | 17:07 |
| th1a | faassen: What's your time frame for finishing this up? | 17:08 |
| faassen | th1a: hah, what do you need to have done? :) | 17:08 |
| th1a | Can we think about starting to package a week from today? | 17:08 |
| faassen | th1a: yeah, I'm planning for that. | 17:08 |
| faassen | th1a: note that thursday is a day off here, but I already calculated that in. | 17:08 |
| th1a | It seems like we're that close. | 17:09 |
| faassen | th1a: there are a lot of smaller todo items, but I expect we'll be done with hopefully most if not all o fthem next week | 17:09 |
| faassen | th1a: and I'm planning to focus on schooltool until then too. | 17:09 |
| ignas | err, i am not sure about having access control 100% ready in a week | 17:09 |
| th1a | ignas: I'm not expecting that. | 17:09 |
| th1a | Just don't leave the trunk in a broken state a week from today. | 17:10 |
| ignas | i am working on a branch at the moment | 17:10 |
| th1a | Right. | 17:10 |
| th1a | So perhaps you'll need to plan on staying in the branch until after next Tuesday? | 17:10 |
| th1a | jinty: What else do we need to consider? | 17:11 |
| th1a | How were're going to handle all our new external packages? | 17:11 |
| th1a | The goal here is to have a SchoolTool tarball and .debs. | 17:12 |
| faassen | jinty: I saw you did some egg related checkin today, what did that mean? | 17:12 |
| faassen | jinty: I tried moving eggs into src from Zope3/src but failed (as per schooltool-dev) | 17:12 |
| faassen | (also on the external packages front) | 17:12 |
| th1a | jinty... ? | 17:14 |
| th1a | In the meantime... any concerns about going to the zc. date widget? | 17:14 |
| th1a | I've always felt ours was quite sketchy, so I'm happy to be rid of it. | 17:15 |
| ignas | +1 | 17:15 |
| faassen | +1 | 17:16 |
| th1a | OK. Guess that's settled then. | 17:16 |
| faassen | we will hunt and destroy your old widget and replace it. | 17:16 |
| faassen | it may take some doing a we'll likely convert the forms involved to zope.formlib | 17:16 |
| faassen | a -> as | 17:17 |
| faassen | as it's much easier to use special widgets with zope.formlib. | 17:17 |
| faassen | anyway, it isn't in use in many places, so we should be okay. | 17:17 |
| mgedmin | +1 | 17:17 |
| th1a | Sounds good. | 17:17 |
| th1a | Hm... while we see if jinty reappears... | 17:18 |
| th1a | I ended up spending quite a bit of time yesterday exploring the new UI code for the "$100 Laptop." | 17:18 |
| th1a | There is a team at Red Hat working on it. | 17:18 |
| th1a | It is Python & GTK. | 17:19 |
| th1a | Sort of a tabbed interface for a small display. | 17:19 |
| th1a | You can see a bit of it here: http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/?p=198 | 17:19 |
| mgedmin | how large is the display on that device? | 17:19 |
| th1a | 7" | 17:19 |
| th1a | Bigger than your 770. | 17:19 |
| th1a | Smaller than a laptop. | 17:19 |
| mgedmin | I meant in pixels | 17:20 |
| th1a | They're making extensive use of Zeroconf, which makes sense since they're using mesh networking. | 17:20 |
| th1a | mgedmin: Not sure. | 17:20 |
| ignas | th1a, any ideas for the PoV deadline ? | 17:21 |
| th1a | They also have their own chat protocol going. | 17:21 |
| th1a | ignas: Prior to June 17? | 17:22 |
| th1a | Anyhow, my point is that for the $100 laptop we may eventually see the stunning return of a REST client for SchoolTool. | 17:23 |
| alga | woohoo | 17:23 |
| ignas | can you remind me why June 17 ? | 17:23 |
| faassen | yay, REST. :) | 17:23 |
| th1a | Also that it will probably be easy to build chat notifications for the system into SchoolTool. | 17:23 |
| th1a | That's just when srichter and I are doing a SchoolTool workshop in Maine. | 17:24 |
| th1a | It would be nice to go through the current code with them. | 17:24 |
| ignas | oh | 17:24 |
| th1a | Spend a whole day with actual users trying to use it. | 17:24 |
| ignas | :) | 17:25 |
| th1a | So that's one landmark in the future. | 17:25 |
| faassen | wow, that's cool. | 17:26 |
| th1a | Having lost jinty, I guess we can wrap this up. | 17:26 |
| faassen | th1a: any idea what could be a followon for infrae after demographics? | 17:26 |
| faassen | th1a: I'd like to know how to plan for june. | 17:26 |
| faassen | th1a: (and I need to let you know we'll be out for about a week during europython, early july) | 17:26 |
| th1a | Or, I can release the rest of you to continue discussing the UI with faassen. | 17:26 |
| faassen | th1a: okay. :) | 17:26 |
| faassen | release them! | 17:26 |
| th1a | Clearly I should not try to apt-get upgrade during these chats. | 17:27 |
| mgedmin | 640x480, looks like | 17:27 |
| mgedmin | my nokia 770 has a larger screen | 17:27 |
| th1a | Larger in pixels. | 17:28 |
| th1a | Yes, the $100 laptop will require some UI tweaking for many apps. | 17:28 |
| th1a | OK... have a good week, folks. | 17:28 |
| * th1a bangs the virtual gravel. | 17:29 | |
| th1a | faassen: Let me fire up my SchoolTool. | 17:29 |
| faassen | okay. | 17:30 |
| th1a | faassen: How do I get to the demographics for an individual student? | 17:30 |
| faassen | th1a: pupeno reproduced the issue on his install, by the way - it seems to be security related. | 17:30 |
| th1a | For all non-managers? | 17:30 |
| faassen | th1a: go to the table screen and then click 'edit' (or display) | 17:30 |
| faassen | th1a: I have no idea, we're still investigating what causes this. | 17:30 |
| faassen | th1a: it's non-intentional. | 17:30 |
| jinty | sorry all, the person who is going to live in my room for two months arrived to pay the deposit | 17:31 |
| * jinty lives in a madhouse | 17:31 | |
| th1a | jinty: OK. We'll have to discuss the release later. | 17:31 |
| mgedmin | is there a ftest for the demographics stuff that looks at the table with a non-manager browser? | 17:32 |
| jinty | th1a: he just left, I can now | 17:33 |
| th1a | faassen: It seems to me that this particular search form is pretty simple. | 17:33 |
| th1a | That is, in the future there will be search forms that will be used in generating reports. | 17:33 |
| th1a | Where you'd, say, want to compare girls and boys. | 17:34 |
| Pupeno | mgedmin: not yet. | 17:34 |
| faassen | th1a: sure, we have a very simple search form, just for finding people. | 17:34 |
| th1a | But in this case, you're just worrying about finding and creating individuals or small groups. | 17:34 |
| faassen | th1a: the search form is only about finding people, small or large amounts. | 17:35 |
| th1a | So is this search form/widget going to be reused, or is this just for editing demographics? | 17:35 |
| th1a | One definite is parents' name. | 17:36 |
| faassen | I'm trying to understand the question. | 17:36 |
| faassen | the search form right now involves looking for people (to view them or edit them) | 17:37 |
| th1a | OK. I'll focus on the task at hand. | 17:37 |
| faassen | the table + search infrastructure is written in a reusable way. | 17:37 |
| th1a | yagni | 17:37 |
| faassen | so we could start wiring that up elsewhere so we can find other things. | 17:37 |
| th1a | So... | 17:37 |
| faassen | so we could have table based browsing of courses or sections, or whatnot. | 17:37 |
| th1a | * parents names | 17:37 |
| th1a | * ID | 17:38 |
| th1a | I think that's sufficient. | 17:39 |
| th1a | To start. | 17:39 |
| faassen | okay. :) | 17:39 |
| faassen | we'll add those. | 17:40 |
| faassen | id being student id, right? | 17:40 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:40 |
| faassen | what about columns? we can add sortable columns for just about anything. | 17:40 |
| th1a | RIght. | 17:40 |
| th1a | Well, I suppose what I need to think about is how this interacts with a proper "next student" workflow. | 17:43 |
| faassen | right. | 17:43 |
| faassen | there are all kinds of UI possibilities. | 17:43 |
| faassen | there's also the add student workflow. | 17:43 |
| faassen | I did a bit of work to make sure we have a last modified date. | 17:43 |
| faassen | and we'll sort the table to show the recently modified students on top. | 17:43 |
| faassen | so at least you can find what you just added. :) | 17:43 |
| faassen | but what needs to be in the add form? | 17:43 |
| th1a | OK. Here's one thing. When you sort by name, it has to be by last name, even if it is displaying the first name first. | 17:44 |
| th1a | Sorting by first name drives teachers insane. | 17:44 |
| th1a | I know that from experience. | 17:45 |
| faassen | right, we already have that on the todo. | 17:45 |
| faassen | to have last name in there. | 17:45 |
| faassen | but I'll make sure we do that. :) | 17:45 |
| faassen | we can easily make it sort on last name, if people fil that in. | 17:45 |
| faassen | I mean, that's one question. | 17:45 |
| faassen | right now lots of the bits are optional. | 17:45 |
| faassen | including last name. | 17:45 |
| faassen | if you want sensible sorting on last name, you need to require it. | 17:45 |
| faassen | otherwise people will be even more insane. :) | 17:45 |
| th1a | I would sort by last name by default. | 17:45 |
| faassen | well, we don't know the last name. | 17:46 |
| faassen | as it's not required. | 17:46 |
| faassen | so it could be empty. | 17:46 |
| faassen | and then what do you sort by? | 17:46 |
| th1a | Oh, I see what you mean. | 17:46 |
| th1a | We certainly could require a last name. | 17:46 |
| faassen | right, we'll do that. | 17:46 |
| faassen | we'll add it to the add form as well then. | 17:46 |
| faassen | we're redoing the add form anyway. | 17:46 |
| faassen | as that's still from the old person code. | 17:46 |
| faassen | right now the person package is doing less and less. | 17:46 |
| faassen | not sure how that should all be balanced out eventually. | 17:47 |
| th1a | The fact of the matter is that there is very little reason to sort in unusual ways in this screen. | 17:47 |
| faassen | right, we'll just see what people will want eventually. | 17:47 |
| th1a | But I can see some uses for more searches. | 17:47 |
| faassen | like, modified datetime is useful, and last name. | 17:47 |
| faassen | we have some other sortable columns, but that's because it's easy. | 17:47 |
| faassen | right. | 17:47 |
| faassen | anyway, we can now easily add searches, change columns or sort order, etc. | 17:47 |
| faassen | and I'm trying to get the code as simple as possible. | 17:48 |
| faassen | so that's easy to make more of such screens. | 17:48 |
| faassen | and hopefully replace some of the existing screens with this stuff. | 17:48 |
| faassen | oh, we still have an open question about the lists. | 17:48 |
| faassen | let me check my mail, to see what my questions are. :) | 17:48 |
| th1a | OK. Yeah, let's keep it simple. | 17:48 |
| faassen | okay, we discussed search screen. | 17:49 |
| faassen | we discussed columns. | 17:49 |
| faassen | I have some ide about the add form. | 17:49 |
| th1a | ignas: http://tuttlesvc.teacherhosting.com/wordpress/?p=126 | 17:49 |
| faassen | one question I didn't ask but should.. | 17:49 |
| faassen | is how we want to manage the choice lists. | 17:49 |
| faassen | like, ethnicity. | 17:49 |
| faassen | things like that. | 17:50 |
| th1a | Oh, right! | 17:50 |
| faassen | that just ties into customizability and so on. | 17:50 |
| faassen | right now I just had something random in there. | 17:50 |
| faassen | but we need a list of things in there. | 17:50 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:50 |
| faassen | and if these are school specific, well, then we need to demonstrate we can do demographics extension packages. :) | 17:50 |
| faassen | as we could simply have school specific forms entirely. | 17:50 |
| faassen | the theory is that this is easy to do now. | 17:51 |
| faassen | but we could find out in practice. :) | 17:51 |
| th1a | Ideally, these lists would be parsed from text files. | 17:51 |
| th1a | But for now we can just hard code dictionaries or whatever. | 17:51 |
| th1a | That's what I've been thinking. | 17:52 |
| faassen | well, then you need to mail the list and let us know what should be in them. | 17:52 |
| faassen | I'm happy to hard-code. | 17:52 |
| th1a | I don't want to make this a test case for extensibility. | 17:52 |
| faassen | and I think hard-coding per school would work reasonably well. | 17:52 |
| Pupeno | th1a: why not having them stored in the ZODB accessed thru some general configuration page ? | 17:52 |
| faassen | right, that's another option. | 17:52 |
| th1a | I added a to-do. Should have some reasonable defaults tomorrow. | 17:52 |
| th1a | Pupeno: That would work. | 17:52 |
| faassen | let us know what you'd like. | 17:53 |
| th1a | How much longer would it take to do it through the web? | 17:53 |
| faassen | th1a: you don't want to make this a test case for extensibility, but we do have it coming up in september. :) | 17:53 |
| th1a | I just don't think it is worth the time right now. | 17:53 |
| faassen | th1a: a day's worth of work I expect, perhaps two depending on what we run into. | 17:54 |
| faassen | th1a: anyway, any upcoming tasks for early june? | 17:54 |
| th1a | Well...srichter's travels have screwed us up a bit. | 17:55 |
| th1a | Since your gradebook work is blocked by his. | 17:55 |
| th1a | I'll have to work out the timeframe with him in more detail. | 17:56 |
| faassen | okay. | 17:56 |
| faassen | I also need to know what the gradebook work entails in more detail. | 17:56 |
| th1a | We'll let you know. Right ;-) | 17:56 |
| faassen | it if involves UI work we'll need to do quite different planning and a UI design first. | 17:56 |
| th1a | True enough. | 17:56 |
| faassen | as I'm not going to dive into it just like this. :) | 17:56 |
| th1a | OK. I'll work on the plan. | 17:57 |
| faassen | anyway, other work we could do is more general maintenance work. | 17:57 |
| faassen | we could spread search and tables to other areas, convert forms to formlib, etc. | 17:57 |
| th1a | Right. I just have to watch my budget. | 17:57 |
| faassen | writing simple code is hard work the first time around, but we got some patterns now. | 17:57 |
| faassen | right. | 17:57 |
| faassen | anyway, I've got more than enough work in june otherwise. | 17:58 |
| faassen | on document library. | 17:58 |
| th1a | I'll let you know what I need soon. | 17:58 |
| faassen | okay. | 17:58 |
| faassen | thanks. :) | 17:58 |
| faassen | okay, added some todos, we'll go to work again, thanks! | 17:58 |
| th1a | Thanks faassen! | 17:58 |
| th1a | Nice meeting you Pupeno. | 17:59 |
| faassen | I'm sure glad Pupeno is helping me. :0 | 17:59 |
| faassen | :) | 17:59 |
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| jinty | th1a: should we talk about the release now? | 18:02 |
| Pupeno | :) | 18:06 |
| Pupeno | Nice meeting you too. | 18:06 |
| Pupeno | I am trying to debug a functional test in the app module, it is this one: http://paste.lisp.org/display/20317 | 18:12 |
| Pupeno | what do the ... mean there ? | 18:12 |
| mgedmin | a wildcard that matches any amount of text | 18:24 |
| mgedmin | (if you define the ELLIPSIS doctest flag, which we usually do) | 18:24 |
| mgedmin | the diffs are not very usable in that case, though, which is a pity | 18:25 |
| Pupeno | ok. | 18:25 |
| Pupeno | so, I can ignore unmatches such as http://paste.lisp.org/display/20317#1 ? | 18:26 |
| Pupeno | more worring unmatches are like these ones: http://paste.lisp.org/display/20317#2 (I haven't touched anything related to that html element). | 18:27 |
| mgedmin | one technique for debugging these is to divide the ftest into two parts | 18:28 |
| mgedmin | by inserting '...' and a blank line | 18:28 |
| mgedmin | so that effectively the test only checks for the first part, followed by anything | 18:28 |
| mgedmin | this lets you isolate the actual chunk that doesn't match | 18:28 |
| mgedmin | yeha, ignore diffs in whitespace | 18:29 |
| Pupeno | mmhh... ok. | 18:29 |
| mgedmin | sometimes it is simpler to rewrite the test | 18:31 |
| mgedmin | and use, e.g., xpath queries to isolate just those chunks that you want to test | 18:32 |
| mgedmin | schooltool.xmlparser has useful XMLDocument and HTMLDocument classes for this | 18:33 |
| mgedmin | example test: src/schooltool/app/rest/ftests/acl.txt | 18:33 |
| mgedmin | schooltool.testing has an analyze module with a queryHTML function that many ftests use | 18:34 |
| mgedmin | example: src/schooltool/attendance/browser/ftests/attendance-forms.txt | 18:34 |
| Pupeno | Thanks. | 18:36 |
| faassen | th1a: that bug of table no-shows should be fixed now. | 18:38 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 6089: | 18:38 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fix a wrong use of canModify. | 18:38 |
| faassen | th1a: you need to update the demo instance | 18:38 |
| Pupeno | To solve my problem I basically ignored every un-matching line except those directly related to my addition, the false positives distracted me. | 18:41 |
| jinty | faassen: done | 18:41 |
| srichter | sorry guys; I totally missed the meeting time | 18:41 |
| srichter | I was thinking about it all morning too | 18:41 |
| ignas | hi srichter | 18:41 |
| srichter | hi | 18:42 |
| srichter | :-) | 18:42 |
| srichter | I was on my computer too, darn | 18:42 |
| ignas | if you have any questions about the new access control model just ask, i will probably answer them (with some latency as i'll be pair programming with gintas now) | 18:42 |
| faassen | ignas: what is the repercussion for the grunt programmers like me? | 18:43 |
| faassen | ignas: do I need to like, change permissions? | 18:43 |
| srichter | ignas: I had more a comment, saying that I think it is not a good idea; but I am not up to speed to make a solid argument | 18:44 |
| srichter | ignas: it is just one more piece of code that we have to maintain | 18:44 |
| ignas | faassen, no reprecussions yet, it's in the branch at the moment | 18:44 |
| ignas | srichter, if we are lucky it will not eat any more time than modules like relationships do | 18:45 |
| srichter | let's hope so | 18:45 |
| ignas | the codebase is pretty small | 18:46 |
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| faassen | ignas: I meant of course to ask "when the branch is merged" :) | 18:50 |
| faassen | ignas: what are the repercussions for developers then? | 18:50 |
| faassen | ignas: relationship model, there's a zc.relationship or something that uses an index, so if that is starting to cost time we could investigate that. :) | 18:51 |
| faassen | ignas: oh, I think you meant developer time not speedtime. :) | 18:51 |
| ignas | faassen, yes, developer time | 18:51 |
| * mgedmin is studying zc.relationship right now | 18:52 | |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 6090: | 18:52 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Remove enc-type on GET, this is just plain wrong. | 18:52 |
| ignas | as for reprecussions, you will have to understand the new security model that's all | 18:52 |
| faassen | ignas: oh, okay. | 18:56 |
| faassen | ignas: that gives me the answer to my question entirely. :) | 18:57 |
| faassen | ignas: so, as developers I will need to understand the new security model and adjust our code according to that understanding? :) | 18:57 |
| ignas | probably you will not need to adjust your old code, just the new one ;) | 18:58 |
| faassen | adjust new code? | 19:00 |
| faassen | oh, you mean the security policy. | 19:01 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 6091: | 19:02 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Some CSS tweaks to make the forms render a bit better in case the title of the field is longer than fits on the screen. Previously this would make the next field appear in the wrong place. | 19:02 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: This fixes this, though the rendering is still imperfect, so this is a work in progress... | 19:03 |
| ignas | faassen, i mean, you will have to add some code if you will want to add relationship based permissions to your objects, but it's much better than subscriber based hell | 19:04 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 6092: | 19:07 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Put in copyright headers. | 19:08 |
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| faassen | ignas: good to hear. | 19:14 |
| faassen | ignas: but no new permissions introduced? | 19:15 |
| ignas | nope, just all of them except for schooltool.edit/schooltool.view removed | 19:15 |
| faassen | ignas: cool. :) | 19:19 |
| faassen | ignas: that sounds good. :) | 19:19 |
| faassen | sorry mr buildbot, I'm on it! | 19:19 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 6093: | 19:27 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fix broken test. | 19:27 |
| * srichter learned early how to shut buildbot up | 19:27 | |
| faassen | run all the tests? :) | 19:28 |
| faassen | I was feeding patches along that came from Pupeno and he already noticed the problem before I checked in, so I just did this by accident. :) | 19:29 |
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| mgedmin | gintas had found a great way to slip behind buildbot's back: use svk! | 19:31 |
| mgedmin | it always touches a property on the project root, or on /trunk | 19:32 |
| mgedmin | which is outside the buildbot directory filter | 19:32 |
| mgedmin | and buildbot had a bug that made it skip the entire checkin if a single change was outside the subtree of interest | 19:32 |
| faassen | :) | 19:32 |
| faassen | heading home. :) | 19:34 |
| faassen | see you later! | 19:34 |
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