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| povbot | /svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 5997: | 12:17 |
|---|---|---|
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fix one more annotation related issue, import from zope, not zope.app. | 12:17 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 5998: | 12:19 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: zope.app.copypastemove -> zope.copypastemove | 12:19 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 5999: | 12:29 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Some more moving of stuff from zope.app.event to zope.lifecycleevent. | 12:29 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 6000: | 12:35 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Change import location from zope.component.site to zope.component.registry | 12:35 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 6001: | 13:22 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Change the way registrations are looked up to the new API. | 13:22 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 6002: | 14:05 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Use the new component registration API for the registration of the authentication utility. | 14:05 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Note that it's still necessary to add the authentication utility to the site management folder, as it's using getNextUtility which relies on it being located. | 14:05 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 6003: | 14:10 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Get rid of some unused imports now, and some deprecation warnings as a result. | 14:10 |
| faassen | ignas: I still have 1 functional test failure. | 14:14 |
| faassen | ignas: to do with the error view lookup I believe. | 14:14 |
| faassen | I have one deprecation warning still, but that's in zc.resourcelibrary, so I'll fix that soon. | 14:15 |
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| ignas | faassen: i have fixed the error view, now only the content type should be failing | 15:22 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 6004: | 15:27 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Typo. | 15:27 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 6005: | 15:27 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Cosmetic fixes. | 15:27 |
| faassen | ignas: so any ETA on the content type issue? | 15:37 |
| ignas | faassen: not really, i want to check some reource stuff and consult with srichter is possible | 15:38 |
| ignas | s/check/chesk in/ | 15:38 |
| ignas | s/is possible/if possible/ | 15:38 |
| ignas | s/chesk/check | 15:38 |
| faassen | ok. | 15:40 |
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| srichter | ignas: here | 17:00 |
| ignas | srichter: iirc you did the PluggableTraverser and AdapterTraversers | 17:01 |
| srichter | yep | 17:02 |
| ignas | srichter: from what i have managed to gather - an AdapterTraverser with factory set to ISchoolToolCalendar is being chosen instead of the CalendarView | 17:02 |
| ignas | and i can't visualize the whole thing t ounderstand what might have changed | 17:02 |
| srichter | mmh, does it use the right plugin? | 17:03 |
| ignas | "it" being ? | 17:03 |
| srichter | Maybe the code relied on the buggy multi-adapter lookup and it was fixed now | 17:03 |
| srichter | I remember having troubles with this | 17:04 |
| ignas | yes | 17:04 |
| ignas | but we fixed that | 17:04 |
| srichter | right | 17:04 |
| srichter | so the pluggable traverser keeps trying names | 17:04 |
| srichter | I would debug it to see which plugin is used to provide an answer | 17:04 |
| ignas | AdapterTraverser | 17:05 |
| ignas | the object is adaptable to ISchoolToolCalendar | 17:05 |
| ignas | and although it has a view for calendar.ics | 17:05 |
| ignas | AdapterPlugin with the same name is chosen over the view | 17:05 |
| * ignas can't understand how this worked before | 17:06 | |
| srichter | me too | 17:06 |
| ignas | i can work around the problem (move the view to some other place for example) that would fix the functional test | 17:06 |
| ignas | but this might be indicating some problem with our setup or a new bug/feature of Zope3 | 17:07 |
| ignas | a.k.a. i like to know what caused the bug before working around it | 17:07 |
| srichter | I am in a totally different space right now, so I do not have time to think about it in great detail | 17:07 |
| ignas | i see | 17:08 |
| srichter | I think you need to have a close look at how the adapters are chosen, since this is what changed during the refactoring | 17:08 |
| srichter | I think the old way we had was already a fix | 17:08 |
| srichter | and not the right thing | 17:08 |
| srichter | I don't understand how the wrong thing can be picked up now | 17:09 |
| ignas | i see, probably i'll need an old Zope3/SchoolTool checkout to denbug the thing then | 17:09 |
| srichter | maybe one of the plugins is not registered for the right request interface | 17:09 |
| faassen | hm. | 18:04 |
| faassen | srichter: can you point me to some working formlib based form in schooltool? | 18:04 |
| faassen | for some reason some lookup isn't happening, and it almost looks like zope.formlib is not loaded. | 18:04 |
| faassen | action/render | 18:06 |
| faassen | it is formlib not being loaded. | 18:08 |
| faassen | why not? | 18:08 |
| faassen | what causes zope 3 core packages to be loaded in schooltool? | 18:09 |
| th1a | jinty: ayt? | 18:16 |
| jinty | th1a: yep | 18:17 |
| srichter | faassen: it is in my term branch | 18:17 |
| th1a | jinty Do you understand what needs to be done to get the development trunk into Rosetta so Nicolas can translate it? | 18:18 |
| faassen | srichter: ah, ok. | 18:18 |
| th1a | Or what we should tell him to do? | 18:18 |
| faassen | how do zope core packages get loaded into schooltool, I mean, their zcml? | 18:18 |
| jinty | faassen: site.zcml? | 18:18 |
| jinty | th1a: Yes, I uderstand what needs to be done, but I am not willing to do it because it means boring repetitive work. | 18:20 |
| jinty | unless launchpad chenged their interface to allow automation | 18:20 |
| faassen | site.zcml loads them all in? | 18:20 |
| faassen | oh, it loads them in manually. | 18:21 |
| th1a | jinty: Well, what do we need to do? | 18:21 |
| jinty | th1a: firstly you need to create a new branch in launchpad for our stable release | 18:22 |
| jinty | sorru, head release | 18:22 |
| jinty | and add a template (That was not automated when I did it last) | 18:22 |
| jinty | the template can be generated from the trunk with make extract-translations | 18:23 |
| jinty | then regularly upload the template to launchpad | 18:23 |
| jinty | and regularly download the .po files people generate and commit them to the repository | 18:24 |
| jinty | and then do that regularly as well | 18:24 |
| jinty | If Nicolas knows svn and how to work with po files it might be much easier just to make him a committer | 18:25 |
| jinty | If you want schoolbell translated, then the whole thing has to be done for the schoolbell template as well | 18:26 |
| th1a | jinty: I'm asking SteveA about elevating my permissions over on #launchpad. | 18:29 |
| th1a | Oh, you already know that. | 18:29 |
| jinty | ;) | 18:30 |
| jinty | th1a: once I wrote the update-rosetta-pot and get-rosetta-translations makefile rules as an attempted automation of the process. They might even still work, but I doubt it. | 18:36 |
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| th1a | SteveA: Where do I create a group? | 18:37 |
| SteveA | th1a: i need to pop away from the computer for a bit. ping me by name if you need something... | 18:37 |
| SteveA | hover over "Launchpad", top left | 18:38 |
| SteveA | choose "People" | 18:38 |
| th1a | SteveA: Thanks! | 18:38 |
| SteveA | choose register a team | 18:38 |
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| th1a | jinty: OK, you're a member of schooltool-owners. | 18:43 |
| th1a | See if you can put the team in charge of SchoolTool. | 18:43 |
| SteveA | nah, he won't be able to | 18:44 |
| SteveA | i'll do it | 18:44 |
| SteveA | done | 18:44 |
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| th1a | SteveA: Thanks. | 18:48 |
| ignas | th1a: do we still pretend that we support backwards compatible RESTive interface and csv views ? | 18:55 |
| th1a | I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Do we claim that they are both stable across versions? | 18:55 |
| ignas | yes | 18:56 |
| ignas | do we ? | 18:56 |
| th1a | No. | 18:56 |
| ignas | thank you | 18:56 |
| th1a | You're welcome. | 18:56 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 6006: | 19:35 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Include zope.formlib's ZCML. | 19:35 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 6007: | 19:42 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Beginnings of demographics integration. | 19:42 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * new nameinfo attribute on person object. An attribute and not | 19:42 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: an annotation is chosen for reasons of simplicity and performance (lots of annotation lookups for lots of users is slow, and tabular | 19:42 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: sorting will cause such lookups to happen). | 19:42 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * create evolution script to make nameinfo attribute exist, plus test. | 19:42 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * nameinfo is a traversable attribute using schooltool.traversing. | 19:42 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * formlib based form for editing nameinfo. The template is maintained in | 19:42 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: person package for now, but eventually this infrastructure will start to be integrated into schooltool.skin. | 19:42 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * simple testbrowser based test to test editform functionality. | 19:42 |
| ignas | faassen: premature optimization, no? | 19:55 |
| faassen | ignas: no, I tried this out. | 19:57 |
| faassen | ignas: it was too slow. | 19:58 |
| faassen | ignas: I just haven't integrated it yet. | 19:58 |
| ignas | i see | 19:58 |
| faassen | it might be that int he new zope 3 trunk it's faster. | 19:58 |
| faassen | as there's faster lookup in genearl. | 19:58 |
| faassen | general. | 19:58 |
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| faassen | also I just think annotations are overkill. :) | 19:58 |
| faassen | they're premature generalization. | 19:58 |
| faassen | like, hey, we can add everything in as annotations. | 19:58 |
| faassen | attributes are much simpler. | 19:59 |
| faassen | so if I can do a bit of premature optimization by having stuff being simpler I certainly don't mind. :) | 19:59 |
| ignas | faassen: well - as a person who will have to extract schoolbell from that mess | 20:00 |
| ignas | i want at least some premature generalization ... as i don't think schoolbell needs demographical data | 20:01 |
| faassen | that's a reasonable argument, in schoolbell you'd not register the annotation? | 20:01 |
| ignas | faassen: how slow were annotations ? what kind of speedup did you get from using the attribute ? | 20:01 |
| faassen | I haven't measured it. | 20:01 |
| ignas | faassen: in schoolbell - i would not include the demographics package (in a perfect world) | 20:02 |
| faassen | oh, well, I was going to integrate the demographics into schooltool.person. | 20:02 |
| faassen | all this focus on generalization and backwards compatibility really negatively affects agility... | 20:03 |
| ignas | faassen: tell me about it | 20:04 |
| faassen | well, agility is important. | 20:04 |
| faassen | backwards compatibility, for schooltool, to be honest, isn't. :) | 20:04 |
| faassen | not now. | 20:04 |
| ignas | if you will convince th1a i will follow :) | 20:04 |
| faassen | ok. :) | 20:04 |
| faassen | anyway, imagine a theoretical world where demographics is a plugin to person. | 20:05 |
| faassen | and you can jsut leave it out. | 20:05 |
| faassen | that means that the search system where you can find people | 20:05 |
| faassen | needs to become a plugin to person too. | 20:05 |
| faassen | and that the table UI where you can browse people.. | 20:05 |
| faassen | needs to be plugged in too, if you are going to use anything from demographics in that table, that is. | 20:06 |
| faassen | and before you know it you're dying in a sea of viewlets and complexity. | 20:06 |
| ignas | faassen: well we have a couple of seas already, i guess we'd need an ocean by then | 20:07 |
| faassen | anyway, just see me as draining a few lakes. :) | 20:07 |
| alga | faassen: I think I understand what you're talking about | 20:07 |
| alga | faassen: we've been there | 20:07 |
| faassen | I know, it makes it very hard to get into schooltool. | 20:07 |
| alga | and now we're trying to get schooltool really modular | 20:07 |
| faassen | well, isn't the goal to make schooltool a great student information management system? | 20:08 |
| alga | srichter has spent a month or so trying to refactor the monolithic mess into dependent modules | 20:08 |
| faassen | I realize it needs flexibility points. | 20:08 |
| faassen | well, I'm all for module dependency in a directed graph. | 20:08 |
| alga | there are people using schoolbell for calendaring | 20:08 |
| alga | we cannot just leave them outside | 20:08 |
| faassen | I'm not going to make a pluggable demographics search and display system. :) | 20:09 |
| faassen | it'd be much simpler to simply write a new user management system for schoolbell. :) | 20:09 |
| faassen | anyway, I was thinking about a strategy where you could just swap in a different factory for person objects. | 20:10 |
| faassen | so if you don't need all the extra data, you just plug in a much simpler object. | 20:10 |
| faassen | I don't really know how to do that. | 20:10 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 6008: | 20:10 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Work around for our functional test failure. (revert it if you want to spend some intimate time with Zope3 adapters) | 20:10 |
| faassen | I can go back to annotations, but really, with my few experiments with a thousand students this brought tabular sorting to a halt. | 20:11 |
| faassen | I didn't measure anything as it just was sucky performance by clicking. | 20:11 |
| ignas | faassen: leave it with an attribute then if profile told you that adaptation was at fault | 20:12 |
| alga | but how can you know you've made any improvement? | 20:12 |
| faassen | I switched it to an attribute and it was faster. | 20:12 |
| alga | yes, sure! | 20:12 |
| faassen | I don't need a tool to tell me that something goes from unacceptabily slow to reasonably fast. :) | 20:12 |
| alga | I switched to GNOME 2.8.1.23 and it is clearly faster! | 20:13 |
| faassen | look, alga, you're being ridiculous. | 20:13 |
| faassen | I can count seconds. | 20:13 |
| faassen | a bit of pragmatism is helpful at times. | 20:13 |
| alga | well, we have to believe you | 20:13 |
| faassen | and again, I consider this to be simpler than annotations all around. | 20:14 |
| faassen | yes, you'll have to believe me. :) | 20:14 |
| faassen | I'm not going to do profiling and give you performance figures. | 20:14 |
| alga | but if you had numbers it would be much easier | 20:14 |
| faassen | well, you're not going to get them. it'd be a complete waste of time. | 20:14 |
| alga | PUHLEASE! | 20:14 |
| alga | all the rules of whatever | 20:14 |
| alga | 1) measure | 20:14 |
| alga | 2) optimize | 20:14 |
| faassen | so? | 20:14 |
| faassen | i measured, I optimized. | 20:14 |
| faassen | it was slow as molasses, I changed it to an attribute, it was simpler and faster. | 20:15 |
| faassen | I shouldn't have mentioned a thing in my checkin comment. | 20:15 |
| * alga gives up | 20:15 | |
| faassen | a bit of pragmatism would be helpful. | 20:15 |
| alga | faassen: profiling is easy and fun! | 20:16 |
| alga | http://mg.pov.lt/blog/profiling.html | 20:16 |
| faassen | don't lecture me, please? | 20:17 |
| alga | no, really | 20:17 |
| alga | one simple decorator for the function you want to profile | 20:17 |
| faassen | okay, alga, tell me all about the value of using a profiler. :) | 20:17 |
| alga | it IS pragmatic | 20:17 |
| th1a | Jeez, go to eat lunch and all hell breaks loose. | 20:18 |
| faassen | let's just quit this discussion. | 20:18 |
| faassen | it's not like I can't change it back if we really need to. | 20:18 |
| alga | faassen: th1a should be aware of what you're doing | 20:18 |
| faassen | I don't think it'll be valuable in any way, and this isn't *more* complicated. | 20:18 |
| faassen | the point about premature optimization is when people make life more complicated because they think they can make it faster. | 20:18 |
| faassen | I made it simpler and hey, it's faster too. | 20:18 |
| faassen | I don't see the issue with that. | 20:18 |
| th1a | Perhaps I should read the backlog... | 20:18 |
| faassen | I just stepped on some toes. | 20:20 |
| th1a | I see. | 20:21 |
| th1a | Well, are we talking about just names or the whole demographic/contact schemas? | 20:22 |
| faassen | I would really like to forgo an implementation discussion right now. | 20:22 |
| faassen | we'll refactor if it needs to be extracted. | 20:23 |
| alga | th1a: 20:09 < faassen> I'm not going to make a pluggable demographics search and display system. :) | 20:26 |
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| alga | th1a: I'm afraid schoolbell will be jeopardized real hard | 20:27 |
| faassen | does schoolbell have a different skin? | 20:29 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 6009: | 20:30 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Resources booked by sections should be visible on their timetable events. You can't book resources when creating timetables anymore (you should use the section resource views for that). CSV and XML formats for timetables were modified accordingly. | 20:30 |
| ignas | th1a: ping me when you finish reading the backlog | 20:34 |
| ignas | th1a: what should i do with time spent on resource booking/conflicts improvements ? | 20:41 |
| th1a | What should you do with it? | 20:41 |
| ignas | th1a: the task is not 100% finished, but it ate way too much time already, and the conflict display will probably eat a lot more ... | 20:41 |
| ignas | i am not sure you would have asked these things if you were aware of the cost, so i just wanted to keep you informed | 20:42 |
| ignas | th1a: is conflict resolution important? and how important it is ? | 20:43 |
| th1a | What do you mean by conflict resolution? A link to the calendar containing the conflicting event? | 20:44 |
| ignas | links to conflicting events/sectionms | 20:45 |
| ignas | in the section resource booking view | 20:45 |
| th1a | It was definitely not ok to let you create conflicting events -- like booking two sections into the same room -- without some warning. | 20:46 |
| faassen | anyway, I shall try to integrate stuff in a separate package, I think that's possible. | 20:47 |
| faassen | so that schooltool.person stays fairly simple. | 20:48 |
| ignas | th1a: well - you can only view conflicts for student scheduling in a student scheduling view not in section members view | 20:48 |
| ignas | th1a: though yes i know it is important | 20:49 |
| ignas | th1a: when i think about, it something simmilar to the student scheduling view for resources is required | 20:51 |
| th1a | ignas: Yes, but I see that more as an argument that the section members view is broken ;-) | 20:51 |
| ignas | th1a: and in a perfect world, section membership view should check for conflicts too | 20:52 |
| th1a | Well, we should probably discuss with Aiste how much of this work should be considered fixing/completing the last contract. | 20:53 |
| faassen | alga: I realize that you can misinterpret what you quoted. What I mean is that I don't intend to make system where demographics and search forms are pluggable. I intend to make demographics screens and search screens so simple that you can easily maintain multiple ones, so you can have a customization that way. | 20:55 |
| ignas | th1a: i'll be a lot calmer after you discuss these matters with Aiste, it apparently the task is way more difficult than we had estimated :/ | 20:59 |
| ignas | s/it// | 20:59 |
| th1a | Yes. | 21:00 |
| th1a | It is necessary, though. | 21:00 |
| alga | faassen: sorry if I looked mean | 21:00 |
| faassen | alga: well, we have to adjust to each other. | 21:02 |
| faassen | I mean, I've used profilers in the past. :) | 21:02 |
| faassen | I also sometimes use the 'print' statement instead of a debugger. | 21:02 |
| faassen | as sometimes that's simpler. | 21:02 |
| alga | I love print statements | 21:02 |
| alga | too | 21:02 |
| faassen | anyway, rest assured, I'm going to consider customizability when I write code. | 21:03 |
| faassen | but I may go about it a different way than using adapters, or pluggable search forms, say. | 21:04 |
| faassen | we'll see. | 21:04 |
| th1a | I could use some suggestions of what to discuss on Tuesday to resolve this question. | 21:04 |
| th1a | So if you want to send an email on Monday, that might help. | 21:04 |
| faassen | which question exactly? | 21:04 |
| faassen | on customizability? | 21:04 |
| faassen | or is this for ignas? | 21:04 |
| th1a | Well, I'm not sure which questions need to be resolved, if any. | 21:04 |
| faassen | I just need to write some more code. | 21:05 |
| faassen | :) | 21:05 |
| th1a | OK. | 21:05 |
| faassen | no questions your honour. | 21:05 |
| * faassen grins. | 21:05 | |
| faassen | see you next week. | 21:05 |
| ignas | faassen: do you mean plugability or customizability? as these two are a bit different in my vocabulary. | 21:05 |
| th1a | See you faassen. | 21:05 |
| faassen | customizability is obviously important. | 21:05 |
| faassen | pluggability is not the only way to accomplish customizability. | 21:05 |
| th1a | Perhaps that's something we could discuss on Tuesday ;-) | 21:06 |
| faassen | anyway, these are all vague concepts open to a zillion interpretations. :) | 21:06 |
| faassen | so we likely don't understand each other. | 21:06 |
| faassen | see you! | 21:06 |
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| th1a | The one thing I want to point out in faassen's defense in this matter is that I was very explicit with him that we needed a working demographics system quickly that would NOT be the uber-portable system of our dreams. | 21:07 |
| th1a | But would get us through next year. | 21:07 |
| th1a | He's going to make some changes that should alleviate the potential SchoolBell headaches. | 21:08 |
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