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| povbot | /svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5927: | 10:25 |
|---|---|---|
| povbot | /svn/commits: Added additional site preferences view for attendance status code editing. | 10:25 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5928: | 12:08 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Test fix: use real adapder as adapter, not __init__. | 12:08 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5929: | 13:01 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Updated sparkline generation code. | 13:01 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5930: | 13:03 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Removed commented code. | 13:03 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5931: | 13:05 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Snail food. | 13:05 |
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| Pupeno | Hello. | 13:32 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5932: | 13:48 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fixed the functional test. | 13:48 |
| ignas | Pupeno, hi | 13:48 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5933: | 14:31 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Allow conversion of homeroom absences into tardies through student attenance form. | 14:31 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5934: | 15:07 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Refactored ApplicationPreferences so that attendance preferences have their own place: AttendancePreferences. | 15:07 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5935: | 15:24 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Made attendance sparkline show black dot when there is no section meeting. | 15:24 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5936: | 15:27 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Removed obsolete "evolution" code. | 15:27 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5937: | 15:31 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Sparkline: README update. | 15:31 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5938: | 15:47 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Time-zone usage guidelines for schooltool. | 15:47 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5939: | 16:14 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Moved "attendance tardy grace period" parameter into AttendancePreferences. | 16:14 |
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| * th1a shuffles some papers. | 16:29 | |
| ignas | hi :) | 16:30 |
| * th1a svn ups. | 16:30 | |
| vidasp | hi | 16:30 |
| th1a | hi vidasp. How are you feeling? | 16:30 |
| vidasp | ok, I just forgot to ask you about "sane default values for the attendance status codes" :) | 16:31 |
| faassen | hi | 16:32 |
| mgedmin | hi | 16:32 |
| th1a | vidasp: Yes, I was thinking about that last night. | 16:32 |
| vidasp | th1a: everything I can come to myself is: 001: excused, 002: unexcused, 404: not found :) | 16:32 |
| th1a | Checking a reference... | 16:33 |
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| alga_ | hi | 16:33 |
| th1a | vidasp: Anyhow, I think I have high tech high's in my files. | 16:34 |
| th1a | I'll get that after the meeting. | 16:34 |
| th1a | So... how close is POV now? | 16:34 |
| ignas | well - as soon as you will supply the info vidas needs it's done i think | 16:35 |
| ignas | as we can't commit an evolution script that adds default values for codes | 16:36 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:36 |
| th1a | I want to spend most of the meeting going over your work, then. | 16:36 |
| th1a | faassen: How are things in Rotterdam? | 16:36 |
| faassen | well just returned from easter break and I have a cold coming on. :) | 16:36 |
| th1a | How was Easter? | 16:37 |
| faassen | good, it was fun, spent time with my parents and siblings. | 16:37 |
| faassen | hunted for easter eggs (we never grow up :) | 16:37 |
| * mgedmin almost didn't notice Easter | 16:37 | |
| faassen | hey! chocolate easter eggs, mgedmin! | 16:37 |
| th1a | My wife's family was here, so it was more Passover than Easter. | 16:38 |
| th1a | OK... access control. | 16:38 |
| faassen | ok. :) | 16:38 |
| th1a | Did you get my response? | 16:38 |
| faassen | yes, though I haven't processed all your feedbacks yet. | 16:38 |
| faassen | we should indeed put this in some form of comprehensible format, though that might be code for all I know. :) | 16:39 |
| th1a | Overall, it is pretty much on target. | 16:39 |
| faassen | that's good to hear. | 16:39 |
| faassen | I just wanted to try spelling this stuff out. | 16:39 |
| th1a | I think probably a grid. | 16:39 |
| faassen | there are quite a few rules. | 16:39 |
| faassen | do the POV people have comments on this? | 16:39 |
| th1a | What format should the grid be created in to optimize collaboration? | 16:39 |
| alga_ | ehh, sorry, I haven't looked at it yet -- with Easter and all the deadlines we had | 16:40 |
| faassen | hm.. | 16:40 |
| th1a | alga_: I figured that was your state. | 16:40 |
| faassen | basically I wrote down in human language a lot of possible access control rules for schooltool | 16:40 |
| faassen | with the idea we would get some insights about how to encode this within the software. | 16:41 |
| faassen | part of it would be encoded in a form of security system, part of it in the views. | 16:41 |
| th1a | When you catch your breath please note that there are a couple emails on the list from a guy who is working on alarm handling for SchoolTool's iCal parser. | 16:41 |
| th1a | He seems to know what he is doing. | 16:41 |
| ignas | saw that, had no time to reply though :/ | 16:42 |
| ignas | home he is using an svn checkout | 16:42 |
| faassen | anyway, concerning access control.. | 16:42 |
| ignas | s/home/hope | 16:42 |
| ignas | as i rewrote the parsing code on the trunk | 16:42 |
| faassen | we could have some technical brainstorm session with whoever at POV is interested | 16:42 |
| faassen | at some opint. | 16:42 |
| faassen | point | 16:42 |
| faassen | on how to implement this in a maintainable way. | 16:42 |
| ignas | faassen, as soon as i can fully understand "what do we want to implement" | 16:43 |
| faassen | I still want to explore a custom security policy myself, but whether that'll do the trick is of course something we'd need to find out. | 16:43 |
| faassen | ignas: right, so read that document of mine to get some idea, hopefully. | 16:43 |
| th1a | So... any suggestions as to table format? Should I use HTML? | 16:44 |
| * mgedmin itches to convert that list of human-readable access control rules into a functional doctest | 16:44 | |
| th1a | OpenOffice.org? | 16:44 |
| th1a | These simple questions drive me nuts. | 16:44 |
| th1a | ASCII art? | 16:44 |
| faassen | mgedmin: yes, that might be a good approach. | 16:45 |
| ignas | ASCII art :) | 16:45 |
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| th1a | No preference? | 16:45 |
| faassen | a functional doctest migh be brest. :) | 16:45 |
| faassen | best. | 16:45 |
| faassen | I mean, that expresses it quite formally. | 16:45 |
| ignas | faassen, the part of access control i am worried most is - the flexibility that we need, hardcoding the list you wrote is not that difficlut, but i still can't grok which parts of it should be modifiable and how ... | 16:45 |
| faassen | ignas: well, security policies can be implemented to be subclassable. | 16:45 |
| ignas | th1a, ascii art can be converted into a doctest more easily | 16:45 |
| faassen | ignas: I imagine that'll grow with a few iterations when we need it. | 16:46 |
| mgedmin | formality is good, but verifiability is even better | 16:46 |
| ignas | faassen, users don't usualy subclass stuff ... | 16:46 |
| faassen | mgedmin: sure. | 16:46 |
| faassen | anyway, shall we make it into a doctest? | 16:46 |
| mgedmin | sufficiently advanced reStructuredText is insistinguishable from ASCII art | 16:46 |
| faassen | ignas: users will go to the control panel and modify the security details there. that will be some explicit knobs, no infinite configurability. | 16:46 |
| th1a | OK reStructuredText. | 16:46 |
| faassen | ignas: I imagine in some cases schools have special security policy requirements and they just get a setup with a new security policy. | 16:47 |
| th1a | faassen: Correct. | 16:47 |
| mgedmin | yes, I also have that question: how much of the security policy is fixed, and how much is configurable by the site admins? | 16:47 |
| mgedmin | site/school | 16:47 |
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| th1a | What we're shooting for now is about 90% fixed. | 16:47 |
| faassen | I'd be happy if we could just capture these rules. I'm somewhat skeptical we actually *need* all that much user configurability. | 16:47 |
| faassen | concerning security rules. | 16:47 |
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| alga_ | what!? | 16:47 |
| mgedmin | attack of the clones? | 16:48 |
| faassen | hm. | 16:48 |
| faassen | alga_: what what? :) | 16:48 |
| alga_ | faassen: what 3 copies of me :-) | 16:48 |
| th1a | There are only a few things that need any kind of flexible permissions. | 16:49 |
| th1a | Resources do, since who can use them is likely to be highly specific. | 16:49 |
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| ignas | mgedmin, alga has multiple dhclients ? :) | 16:50 |
| th1a | e.g., mgedmin and alga can use projector a, vidasp and ignas can use projector b. | 16:50 |
| th1a | But those cases aren't super critical at this point anyhow. | 16:50 |
| faassen | okay, we need to encapsulate those in the document too. | 16:50 |
| faassen | I think that's not exactly permissions, that's actually giving people or groups access to something. | 16:51 |
| th1a | Yes. | 16:51 |
| faassen | we already have that with sections too. | 16:51 |
| faassen | so yeah, that kind of stuff is configurable. it's just that I suspect the rules that do stuff with that information to enforce security won't need that much customization. | 16:51 |
| th1a | OK. So I'll try to turn this into a table by next week. | 16:52 |
| th1a | I'd like to move on to POV's new code. | 16:53 |
| th1a | Any last words on access control? | 16:53 |
| faassen | hm, last word.. | 16:53 |
| faassen | once POV has read this, please relpy with feedback about how implementation might work to the lsit. | 16:53 |
| faassen | so we can have a discussion about it. | 16:54 |
| faassen | like, how would the implementation work, performance issues, etc. | 16:54 |
| alga | +1 for taking the discussion to the list | 16:54 |
| faassen | then we can take it back to IRC whenever needed. | 16:54 |
| faassen | one important bit about any security policy is that it'd need to perform decently. | 16:54 |
| faassen | so we need to think about whether that's a big concern or not given particular implementation choices. | 16:54 |
| th1a | Yes, more discussion on list, please. | 16:55 |
| th1a | OK... | 16:56 |
| th1a | Let's go through these stories. | 16:56 |
| th1a | Resource management/booking in timetables. | 16:56 |
| th1a | Ill be working from the standard set of sample data here... | 16:57 |
| th1a | So I go to section000 | 16:57 |
| th1a | Stare blankly at my overly long list of actions ;-) | 16:57 |
| th1a | Find the "book resources" link in the main part of the page. | 16:58 |
| th1a | Adding a resource seems to work more or less correctly. | 16:58 |
| ignas | :) | 16:58 |
| ignas | shew | 16:58 |
| th1a | Doesn't tell me that there is a conflict. | 16:59 |
| th1a | It seems like there would be a conflict if I'm retroactively adding this resource for the whole term. | 17:00 |
| ignas | this can be implemented, though it will slow things down | 17:00 |
| ignas | at the moment conflicts between timetables and normal calendars are not being calculated | 17:00 |
| th1a | Well, I think it is necessary. | 17:01 |
| th1a | To keep you from double booking your classrooms. | 17:01 |
| th1a | Also, when I look at my calendar, the resources don't show up on the calendar event. | 17:02 |
| ignas | i am afraid that double booking might appear as a 100 days long list of conflickting events | 17:02 |
| th1a | ignas: Yes. | 17:02 |
| th1a | Perhaps this could be condensed. | 17:03 |
| th1a | "Conflict with section002 - 110 times" | 17:03 |
| ignas | resoving conflicts among sections separately from conflicts with normal events ? | 17:03 |
| th1a | For regular events we pretty much just warn you that there is a conflict, right? | 17:05 |
| th1a | Do we provide a link to the other event? | 17:06 |
| ignas | at the moment - conflicts between timetable events and normal events are not being handled | 17:07 |
| th1a | Right. | 17:08 |
| ignas | for conflicts between normal events we are providing links to the conflicting events | 17:08 |
| th1a | Yes, I see that. | 17:09 |
| th1a | So if you conflict with a timetable event, you can't edit the instances of the event, | 17:10 |
| th1a | but you want a link to the section resources. | 17:10 |
| th1a | Ideally, only if you have permission to change the section resources. | 17:10 |
| th1a | Otherwise, just a warning. | 17:11 |
| th1a | But that's a separate fix, really. | 17:11 |
| ignas | not a small one i am afraid | 17:11 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:11 |
| th1a | Don't worry about that. | 17:11 |
| th1a | For now. | 17:11 |
| th1a | Also, it is ok if the UI is somewhat unusable if you try to add a resource to a section that has already been booked dozens of times through the term. | 17:13 |
| th1a | That's a use case that isn't really redeemable. | 17:13 |
| th1a | I'll write these up in an email tonight, btw. | 17:14 |
| th1a | Skipping down a bit... | 17:15 |
| th1a | One thing I notice is that what we have as "user visible changes" and what I expect to see as a user are entirely different :-( | 17:16 |
| ignas | :/ | 17:16 |
| th1a | For example, I make a timetable with two homerooms, and the obvious thing I'm looking for is two homerooms designated when I view the timetable. | 17:16 |
| th1a | Which I don't get. | 17:16 |
| th1a | I only see one when I view the timetable. | 17:17 |
| th1a | And indeed, this isn't specifically listed in the contract. | 17:17 |
| th1a | But is obviously a bug. | 17:17 |
| ignas | yes | 17:17 |
| ignas | it is a bug | 17:17 |
| ignas | will fixit asap | 17:18 |
| th1a | I deleted an empty timetable and that seemed to work. | 17:19 |
| th1a | I mean, unused timetable. | 17:19 |
| th1a | What should I expect if I delete the default timetable? | 17:19 |
| ignas | try it | 17:19 |
| ignas | it asks for confirmation | 17:19 |
| th1a | Yes, and then are all my sections un-timetabled then? | 17:19 |
| ignas | yes | 17:20 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:20 |
| ignas | if you decide to really delete the scema | 17:20 |
| alga | the real use case is erroneous, unused schemas | 17:21 |
| th1a | ignas: Did you write your handy guide to not creating timezone bugs? | 17:21 |
| ignas | schooltool/calendar/timezones.txt | 17:22 |
| th1a | OK. Thanks. | 17:23 |
| th1a | Now... | 17:23 |
| ignas | though at the moment, you can't really be 100% sure that everything is ok ... | 17:23 |
| th1a | In the last seven minutes, let's look at the control panel. | 17:23 |
| th1a | OK, so I see two sets of "Unresolved unexplained absences." | 17:25 |
| th1a | I'm not sure why they are two separate sets. | 17:25 |
| ignas | two sets ? | 17:25 |
| th1a | How are they different. | 17:25 |
| ignas | which view is it ? | 17:25 |
| ignas | the "Attendance Panel" | 17:26 |
| ignas | ? | 17:26 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:26 |
| th1a | That's what I meant. | 17:26 |
| th1a | Sorry. | 17:26 |
| th1a | Hm... maybe we should continue this discussion just with POV tomorrow after I send an email tonight. | 17:27 |
| ignas | the design is a bit different from the one i initialy thought about, as it occured to me that - most of the time manager will have 1 student to deal with | 17:27 |
| ignas | not 10 students | 17:27 |
| th1a | Or perhaps we can just do it by email. | 17:27 |
| ignas | possible | 17:27 |
| th1a | Can we set a time for tomorrow? | 17:28 |
| th1a | Which may or may not be necessary? | 17:28 |
| ignas | ok | 17:29 |
| ignas | i think so | 17:29 |
| ignas | alga, mgedmin ? | 17:29 |
| alga | +1 | 17:29 |
| vidasp | ok | 17:29 |
| th1a | 1330? | 17:29 |
| th1a | UTC. | 17:29 |
| alga | suits me fine | 17:30 |
| * mgedmin has a lecture from 16:00 to 20:00 EEST | 17:30 | |
| mgedmin | although I can probably participate from the uni | 17:30 |
| mgedmin | yes I can | 17:30 |
| mgedmin | 1330 works for me | 17:30 |
| th1a | OK. Cool. | 17:31 |
| th1a | See you then. | 17:31 |
| th1a | Thanks everyone! | 17:31 |
| * th1a bangs the virtual gavel. | 17:31 | |
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| th1a | vidasp: I'm looking up codes. | 17:31 |
| vidasp | th1a: ok | 17:31 |
| faassen | thanks th1a | 17:32 |
| th1a | I have a printout of the PowerSchool attendance guide that's about 2cm thick. | 17:32 |
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| th1a | We can make a dictionary of code:description, right? | 17:34 |
| ignas | yes | 17:34 |
| vidasp | yes | 17:34 |
| th1a | Try these: | 17:34 |
| th1a | P : Parent Excused | 17:34 |
| th1a | S : School Excused | 17:34 |
| th1a | I : In School Suspension | 17:35 |
| th1a | O : Out of School Suspension | 17:35 |
| th1a | X : Truant | 17:35 |
| th1a | V : Vacation | 17:35 |
| th1a | F : Field Trip | 17:35 |
| th1a | B : Late Bus | 17:35 |
| th1a | </list> | 17:36 |
| vidasp | thats all? | 17:36 |
| th1a | That's still a fairly arbitrary list of examples. | 17:36 |
| th1a | Hm... | 17:37 |
| vidasp | so, I'll put it in | 17:37 |
| th1a | So the database has to be updated when these codes are changed? | 17:37 |
| th1a | With an evolution script? | 17:37 |
| ignas | th1a, no, these are just codes that you start out with | 17:37 |
| ignas | and not, apparently vidas made it that way that no evolution script is nescessary | 17:38 |
| th1a | Right. Where would one change them? | 17:38 |
| vidasp | (unless you have checkout which is less that 2 hours old :) | 17:38 |
| th1a | OK. Good. | 17:38 |
| th1a | I was worried for a second. | 17:38 |
| th1a | OK. I have to go meet someone coming down from Harvard for a chat. | 17:39 |
| th1a | Some eLearning person... | 17:39 |
| th1a | I'll send a longer review tonight and ttyl. | 17:39 |
| vidasp | site preferences | 17:41 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5940: | 18:09 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fixed timetable schema view. | 18:09 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5941: | 18:09 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Extra newline. | 18:09 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5942: | 18:40 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Made sparkline show only schooldays with section meetings. | 18:40 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5943: | 18:43 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: New default attendance status codes. | 18:43 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5944: | 18:46 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Updated sparkline legend. | 18:46 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5945: | 18:46 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Whitespace. | 18:46 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5946: | 18:48 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Evolution script for attendance record cache. | 18:48 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5947: | 18:48 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Show attendance link on section event (viewlet) only to the authorised persons with schooltool.viewAttendance permission on section. | 18:48 |
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| pcardune | th1a: ayt? Is that article you were writing a few days ago about CanDo on the web? | 22:56 |
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| dwelsh | paul, let me try that again. | 23:10 |
| dwelsh | calling you back. | 23:10 |
| th1a | pcardune: That was just something I'm going to send to eSchool News to try to get them to write an article. | 23:16 |
| pcardune | oh ok | 23:18 |
| th1a | pcardune: Do you want to take a look at it? | 23:18 |
| pcardune | sure | 23:19 |
| th1a | pcardune: Sent to yr gmail. | 23:20 |
| pcardune | thanks | 23:21 |
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