| srichter | th1a: back | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| srichter | th1a: well, "E" could be a category and thus it is clear what it is | 00:01 |
| th1a | I have to go now. | 00:02 |
| th1a | Something to discuss tomorrow. | 00:02 |
| th1a | Actually, the whole "E" question may just make no sense conceptually. | 00:03 |
| th1a | There may be no right answer. | 00:03 |
| srichter | ok, see ya tomorrow | 00:05 |
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| tiredbones | Well, I hope I got rid of my sef fault problem. I pulled my mem stick and clean the system a bit. I must clean it more often than every three years. | 00:12 |
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| jinty | hmm, maybe this is why the mailman get's stuck: | 01:09 |
| jinty | Mar 06 14:47:26 2006 (18329) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit | 01:09 |
| jinty | (pid: 21677, sig: None, sts: 1, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] | 01:09 |
| jinty | Mar 06 14:47:26 2006 (18329) Qrunner OutgoingRunner reached maximum restart limit of 10, not restarting. | 01:09 |
| jinty | last sent message before death: Mar 06 14:44:59 | 01:15 |
| jinty | or better yet: | 01:18 |
| jinty | Mar 06 14:47:26 2006 (21677) <OutgoingRunner at -1211673492> processing 1 queued bounces | 01:18 |
| jinty | Mar 06 14:47:26 2006 (21677) <OutgoingRunner at -1211673492> processing 1 queued bounces | 01:18 |
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| jinty | working hypothesis: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-coders/2005-February/001609.html | 02:21 |
| th1a | day of year out of range? That sounds like a SchoolTool bug. | 02:22 |
| jinty | maybe a python bug;) | 02:22 |
| jinty | turning off the list bounces might be a workaround | 02:24 |
| th1a | What does that mean? | 02:24 |
| jinty | when someone tries to post to a list, but hasn't registered, they get a bounce | 02:26 |
| jinty | i think | 02:26 |
| th1a | OK. | 02:27 |
| jinty | hmm, actually the offending code looks to be just a log message. I'll replace it with something else and see how we go. | 02:28 |
| tiredbones | What happen if people don't know they have to register to get on the list/ | 02:28 |
| jinty | # We've already scored any bounces for this day, so ignore it. | 02:29 |
| jinty | syslog('bounce', '%s: %s already scored a bounce for date %s', | 02:29 |
| jinty | self.internal_name(), member, | 02:29 |
| jinty | time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y', day + (0,)*6)) | 02:29 |
| th1a | tiredbones: They're supposed to get a message notifying them of the situation. | 02:29 |
| jinty | ok, let's see if that makes a difference... | 02:39 |
| jinty | night! | 02:51 |
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| * th1a is awake, if needed. | 14:30 | |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 5794: | 19:01 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Remove the current directory from the python path. This fixes a error in the nightly tarball script. | 19:01 |
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| ignas | th1a, ayt ? | 19:51 |
| SteveA | faassen: i think a suffix is like "jr" or "III (the third)" or "the younger" in "pitt, the younger" | 19:54 |
| faassen | yeah, I guessed as much, but that doesn't mean I know. :) | 19:54 |
| *** thisfred is now known as thisfred_senior | 19:56 | |
| thisfred_senior | ;) | 19:57 |
| *** thisfred_senior is now known as thisfred | 19:57 | |
| mgedmin | ispell suggests replacing 'realtime attendance form' with 'mealtime attendance form' :-) | 20:02 |
| tiredbones | faassen, after reading your last email and briefly looking at HTH spec., how do you view the joining of the two? | 20:02 |
| SteveA | faassen: the invader of england in 1066, william the conqueror, was know by the suffix "the bastard" | 20:04 |
| th1a | ignas: I am here. | 20:11 |
| faassen | tiredbones: hmm.. | 20:20 |
| faassen | tiredbones: good question, I don't have an answer yet. | 20:20 |
| th1a | Do they seem incompatible somehow? | 20:20 |
| faassen | tiredbones: I've been butting my head against customization issues, just trying to think it through. | 20:20 |
| th1a | faassen: I'm writing a response to your email now. | 20:20 |
| th1a | srichter and I just got back from lunch. | 20:20 |
| faassen | I mean, we *are* going to need customizations to all kinds of bits in schooltool | 20:21 |
| faassen | and the commendations module is a rather course grained approach. | 20:21 |
| faassen | the one way I can think through is skin-based customization. I haven't gotten a handle on viewlets yet, but that won't be a solution to everything either. | 20:21 |
| faassen | sometimes simply different kinds of objects will need to be produced that are interface compatible but also have differences. | 20:21 |
| faassen | not sure how to accomplish that in a zope 3-ish way yet. | 20:22 |
| faassen | not course grained. coarse grained. :) | 20:22 |
| th1a | Well, here's what I just wrote in the email: I didn't sufficiently define the scope of our ambition this time around. We are not trying to come up with a perfect universal schema. Nor are we trying to come up with the perfect customizable/i18n system in this iteration. Probably we'll try the second one next year. | 20:22 |
| th1a | What we are trying to do is something simple that will work in most countries and in particular in our partner schools. | 20:23 |
| faassen | well, I rather wonder whether what you described will work in Belgium. :) | 20:23 |
| faassen | i'm not trying to come up with a perfect customizable system either. | 20:23 |
| faassen | I'm just trying to come up with *any* customization system. | 20:23 |
| srichter | faassen: think of viewlets as UI-based adapters :-) (Maybe at the Swiss Sprint I am writing a document of the paralells) | 20:24 |
| faassen | right now the core has a lot of half-hearted UIs. | 20:24 |
| faassen | srichter: yeah, I sort of have the concept, just not enough experience to actually reason about them. | 20:24 |
| th1a | Half-hearted UI's is a good way to put it. | 20:24 |
| * mgedmin wonders if Unicode has a HALF HEART character | 20:24 | |
| faassen | anyway, we'll end up making the UIs better in the core and we'll end up doing some of the custom UIs we'll need from extensions. | 20:25 |
| th1a | If there are particular bits about the schema I laid out that need to be modified over the next six months, that's not a big dea. | 20:25 |
| faassen | and besides UIs we'll end up defining schemas from extensions, most likely. | 20:25 |
| faassen | th1a: I know you're right. | 20:25 |
| tiredbones | faassen, th1a, am I right to assume that your going to address the Student Info in the HTH spec.? | 20:25 |
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| th1a | I guess I should look at the HTH spec... | 20:26 |
| faassen | th1a: use case STU1 | 20:27 |
| faassen | th1a: I think. | 20:27 |
| faassen | unless there's more to that spec than these use cases. | 20:27 |
| faassen | it's not too worrying given your descriptions. | 20:27 |
| th1a | I've got that stuff in there, don't I? | 20:27 |
| faassen | yeah, I think we have that covered. | 20:28 |
| th1a | I guess I'm just assuming that we can't jam it all into one page. | 20:28 |
| th1a | Which might be a bad assumption. | 20:28 |
| th1a | The fewer pages/tabs required, the better. | 20:28 |
| tiredbones | th1a, yes you do, it just got to be flush out. | 20:28 |
| faassen | I don't know, we've been considering user interfaces. for the add form we might want to jam a lot in one page as that's easier. | 20:28 |
| th1a | I think I'm used to very space inefficient layout of these things. | 20:29 |
| faassen | anyway, I've just been thinking about the customization problem not because I want the perfect approach. | 20:29 |
| faassen | but because I want my brain to come up with some approaches and patterns. | 20:29 |
| faassen | that are at least distant goals. | 20:29 |
| faassen | and who knows, perhasp tomorrow I'll have some smart idea that's easy to implement. | 20:29 |
| th1a | The one problem I don't know the answer to is how can we have multiple versions of these student data schemas for different countries, but whichever one is being used can register itself as the "student data schema." | 20:30 |
| th1a | If that makes any sense. | 20:30 |
| tiredbones | Do people still normalize data these days? | 20:30 |
| faassen | tiredbones: not in an object database, exactly. :) | 20:31 |
| faassen | th1a: yeah, that's one of the problems I'm struggling with. | 20:31 |
| faassen | th1a: anyway, we will run into issues like this in various places | 20:32 |
| faassen | th1a: one approach with that registration is if your extension is a skin, and which student data is added is set in a menu. | 20:32 |
| faassen | th1a: you can override the menu in another skin that's defined by the customization. | 20:32 |
| faassen | th1a: so you have a core skin and a customized skin which uses the core skin. | 20:32 |
| faassen | th1a: just overrides bits and pieces here and there. but I'm not sure whether that (and viewlets) can get us all the way. | 20:33 |
| faassen | th1a: but we're going to need a core and an extension one way or another. | 20:33 |
| th1a | faassen: I think you're way overthinking this particular problem. | 20:33 |
| th1a | This implementation of student data is kind of a stopgap. | 20:34 |
| faassen | I'm not just thinking about student data. | 20:34 |
| th1a | UI in general. | 20:34 |
| faassen | we're going to need a schooltool core and a schooltool HTH extension. | 20:34 |
| faassen | what ends up where depends on lots of stuff. | 20:34 |
| th1a | Yes, ok. | 20:35 |
| faassen | it's UI and more than that, also definitions of schemas, ideally. | 20:35 |
| faassen | I'm overthinking these things *now* so I can at least forget about them for now. | 20:35 |
| faassen | anyway, i'm thinking about it in the context of student schemas as it's a concrete example. | 20:35 |
| faassen | we may need it for other content objects too eventually, such as courses, perhaps resources. | 20:35 |
| faassen | though I don't expect we'll need it this year. | 20:36 |
| faassen | schooltool right now is vague enough we hope it can work for any school. | 20:37 |
| faassen | but I'm worried it cannot work for *any* school. :) | 20:37 |
| faassen | so we're going to need a core/extension mechanism. we may need to start applying skins at least. | 20:37 |
| faassen | I also don't want to build something that needs a complete overhaul next year. | 20:37 |
| faassen | anyway, it'll all get concrete in a bit. | 20:38 |
| faassen | I just am not there yet. | 20:38 |
| th1a | OK. | 20:38 |
| faassen | what I'm doing right now is setting up my subconscious so I hope with a few more nights of sleep I'll get some good ideas. :) | 20:39 |
| faassen | or at least can resign myself to some idea I've already had. | 20:39 |
| faassen | question about extension libraries.. | 20:39 |
| faassen | it may be useful to start using some of the zope extension libraries in schooltool at some stage. | 20:39 |
| faassen | I'm thinking about zc.table, for instance, and hurry.query | 20:39 |
| faassen | what's the procedure for having some of that adopted into schooltool? | 20:40 |
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| srichter | we are are not as strict as svn.zoep.org | 20:40 |
| srichter | Basically we just have to make them part of the buildout process | 20:41 |
| * tiredbones BOOKMARKER | 20:42 | |
| faassen | anyway, i'm out of here now. | 20:47 |
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