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| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5702: | 13:11 |
|---|---|---|
| povbot | /svn/commits: Too much whitespace. | 13:11 |
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| shapr | Silly question, bountycounty.org gives a link to SchoolTool bounties, but http://www.schooltool.org/bounties doesn't give much detail. I also don't see any bounty info in the schooltool issue tracker. Where can I find such info? | 13:47 |
| * shapr wants to get paid to hack on OSS | 13:47 | |
| mgedmin | shapr, talk to th1a once he wakes up | 13:48 |
| shapr | ok, and hello | 13:49 |
| mgedmin | hi yourself ;) | 13:49 |
| Aiste | shapr: hya | 13:50 |
| alga | hi | 13:50 |
| shapr | greetings Aiste | 13:50 |
| shapr | hey alga | 13:50 |
| * shapr bounces cheerfully | 13:50 | |
| Aiste | :)) | 13:50 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5703: | 14:06 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Added API safeguards. | 14:07 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5704: | 14:53 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Remove extra import. | 14:53 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5705: | 14:54 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Attendance logging. | 14:54 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5706: | 15:02 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Ooops, forgot a file. | 15:02 |
| mgedmin | the "file and forget" approach to testing ;) | 15:04 |
| shapr | heh | 15:04 |
| mgedmin | woohoo, libxml2 sees <textarea name="foo" id="foo"> and complains that id "foo" is already used! | 15:09 |
| mgedmin | baaad libxml2 | 15:09 |
| mgedmin | if I remove either name or id, it doesn't complain | 15:09 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 5707: | 15:09 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Changed a PersistentDict into an OOBTree for speed. | 15:09 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5708: | 15:20 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Attendance explanation and resolution from the student attendance view. | 15:20 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5709: | 15:26 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Rename SectionAttendancePlugin to SampleAttendancePlugin. | 15:26 |
| mgedmin | lunchtime! | 15:30 |
| mgedmin | see you all in an hour | 15:30 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5710: | 16:17 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Small fixes. | 16:17 |
| shapr | th1a: Awake? | 16:18 |
| th1a | shapr: Hi. | 16:23 |
| shapr | Do you know where I can find information on schooltool bounties? | 16:24 |
| th1a | Well... despite Mark's advertisement, we haven't really been using bounties at this point. | 16:25 |
| th1a | Because it is difficult to define the building blocks of an application (which is where we are) as bounties. | 16:25 |
| shapr | Well, I'm a contract programmer who's sick of working for corporations... I'm looking for any and all paying open source work. | 16:26 |
| th1a | I see. | 16:26 |
| shapr | Though my skills center around Haskell, Python, Java, Linux, and academic computer science. | 16:26 |
| shapr | I've been a self employed Zope/Plone guy for about five years. | 16:26 |
| shapr | Well, Python and Java first, then Zope and Plone later. | 16:27 |
| shapr | Anyway, if you end up with some building blocks that need doing, I'm interested. | 16:27 |
| th1a | It has also been a bit tricky since Zope 3 is rather different than Zope 2. | 16:27 |
| shapr | I haven't yet learned Zope 3, but would very much like to. | 16:27 |
| shapr | I'm thoroughly sick of the lack of composability of Zope 2 | 16:28 |
| ignas | hi | 16:28 |
| th1a | The fact of the matter is, if you can fix a few bugs, or otherwise demonstrate that you grok Zope 3 and SchoolTool, it is fairly likely that I will need you at some point this year. | 16:28 |
| Aiste | hi th1a | 16:28 |
| shapr | th1a: Well, I can do that :-) | 16:29 |
| th1a | Hi Aiste. | 16:29 |
| shapr | th1a: Any problems working with a US Citizen living in Sweden? | 16:29 |
| th1a | None whatsoever. | 16:29 |
| shapr | Extraspiffy. | 16:29 |
| th1a | shapr: http://www.schooltool.org/documentation/developer-references/becoming-a-contributor/contributor.pdf/view | 16:30 |
| th1a | You should snail-mail that to me, because we need a hard copy, and they tend to get misplaced at this point by the Foundation. | 16:31 |
| shapr | Silly question, how can two people both have exclusive rights? | 16:31 |
| th1a | Tom Hoffman/125 Adelaide Ave./Providence, RI 02907 | 16:31 |
| th1a | The contributor agreement is based on the Zope contributor agreement. | 16:32 |
| shapr | Yeah, it looks like it. I like that approach. | 16:32 |
| th1a | It allows the Shuttleworth Foundation to change the license if necessary. | 16:33 |
| shapr | You may want to specify which version(s) of the GPL are acceptable. | 16:33 |
| th1a | That is becoming an issue now. | 16:33 |
| shapr | Also, I don't think Sweden has any cryptocontrols, but I'll have to check. | 16:34 |
| th1a | shapr: I need to start our meeting, but if you want to email me a scan or something like that before the snail mail gets to me, we can do that. | 16:34 |
| shapr | Cool | 16:34 |
| shapr | Thanks :-) | 16:34 |
| th1a | Thank you! | 16:34 |
| th1a | hi ignas, mgedmin. | 16:34 |
| mgedmin | hi, th1a | 16:34 |
| th1a | alga. | 16:34 |
| alga | hi | 16:34 |
| th1a | I'm not sure if srichter will be paying attention. | 16:35 |
| th1a | I've been repurposing some of alga's code. | 16:35 |
| th1a | Basically, I'm reusing the sample data code to write scripts to import data from text files to set up a SchoolTool instance for my old school here. | 16:36 |
| th1a | Which is the method I think we'll use when we start doing this for real with our partners. | 16:37 |
| th1a | So that the whole setup is scripted. | 16:37 |
| ignas | why not REST ? | 16:38 |
| mgedmin | speed perhaps? | 16:38 |
| th1a | Well, I'm doing this in Python on the same machine, so REST isn't really necessary. I considered it. | 16:39 |
| th1a | Seemed like more work. | 16:39 |
| ignas | i see | 16:39 |
| mgedmin | it *might* be more reliable, though | 16:39 |
| mgedmin | if there are any constraints that are only checked in views | 16:39 |
| th1a | mgedmin: I was wondering about that. | 16:40 |
| mgedmin | rather than deep in model classes | 16:40 |
| mgedmin | on the other hand, I don't think there are any cases like this | 16:40 |
| mgedmin | we tried hard to keep constraint checking in core code or event subscribers instead of views | 16:40 |
| mgedmin | sometimes I think it would be worth it to have methods to sanity check data (class invariants etc.) | 16:41 |
| alga | So that you have a mental picture of us now: http://fridge.pov.lt/~alga/meeting.jpg | 16:41 |
| mgedmin | like we have unit tests to check code | 16:41 |
| th1a | Well, regardless, I can still use my new "setup data" package with REST as well. | 16:41 |
| th1a | alga: Nice. SteveA is there? | 16:42 |
| mgedmin | yes, but he's laptopless | 16:42 |
| Aiste | yup | 16:42 |
| th1a | Say "Hi" for me. | 16:42 |
| shapr | (and me!) | 16:42 |
| Aiste | steveA says hi to th1a and shapr | 16:43 |
| Aiste | :) | 16:43 |
| *** alga is now known as SteveA__ | 16:43 | |
| SteveA__ | hi | 16:43 |
| th1a | Another nice thing about scripting the whole setup process is that if you decide half-way through that you should have done it with REST, it would be pretty easy to switch. | 16:43 |
| *** SteveA__ is now known as alga | 16:43 | |
| th1a | So I'll probably check that in this week, although it isn't much more than a global find/replace of "sample" for "setup" and removing all the code for randomness. | 16:44 |
| th1a | We're also going to be testing out the gradebook here at the school this week, and I might need some advice on generating pdf reports soon. | 16:45 |
| th1a | Not quite yet. | 16:45 |
| th1a | So... where are we with attendance? | 16:45 |
| Aiste | th1a: what plans do you ahve for the next bit of work for pov? | 16:45 |
| mgedmin | I think we're done | 16:46 |
| mgedmin | unless we missed something | 16:46 |
| th1a | More attendance and/or calendar bugfixing. | 16:46 |
| th1a | Are period attendances tied into day attendances now? | 16:46 |
| Aiste | th1a: we want to take a week or two break before starting on the next bit | 16:47 |
| mgedmin | yes | 16:47 |
| ignas | th1a, no | 16:47 |
| th1a | So that if the day attendance is excused then all the constituent periods are? | 16:47 |
| ignas | no | 16:47 |
| mgedmin | ah, that's what you meant | 16:47 |
| mgedmin | I thought you were talking about sample data | 16:47 |
| th1a | That's rather essential. | 16:47 |
| th1a | This is the problem with cross-cultural programming. Perhaps I didn't explain that requirement well enough. | 16:49 |
| mgedmin | you could say that | 16:49 |
| mgedmin | ignas seems to understand it, though | 16:49 |
| mgedmin | so, if you accept an explanation for a day absence | 16:50 |
| mgedmin | all section absences on the same day should get the same explanation and become excused? | 16:50 |
| mgedmin | did I get it right? | 16:50 |
| th1a | Yes. | 16:50 |
| mgedmin | is that all, or was there something else? | 16:50 |
| th1a | Another possible approach would be that when there is a day absence, you don't record period absences, but that the method that checks for period absence would also check for day absences. | 16:51 |
| ignas | won't that b | 16:52 |
| ignas | e difficult to implement when someone skips the day attendance | 16:52 |
| ignas | but comes to a section meeting | 16:52 |
| th1a | ignas: I'm dubious, too, but I thought I'd throw it out there. | 16:52 |
| th1a | So, keeping with the current thinking, yes, mgedmin is right. | 16:53 |
| ignas | my sense of underspecified feature is tingling ;) | 16:53 |
| th1a | Yes... I'm feeling the same way too, a bit. | 16:54 |
| th1a | In the case of absences, it is pretty straightforward. | 16:54 |
| th1a | If the student was absent for the whole day. | 16:54 |
| mgedmin | btw, currently you can select the checkboxes for a homeroom absence, and all section meetings on a particular day, and add explanations/excuse all the absences with one form submission | 16:55 |
| th1a | Cases when you are tardy "for the day" are more complicated (and perhaps we should punt on for this contract). | 16:55 |
| th1a | Ah. | 16:55 |
| th1a | I hadn't seen that. | 16:55 |
| mgedmin | (I think we discussed that during one meeting) | 16:56 |
| mgedmin | It just went in a couple of hours ago | 16:56 |
| th1a | OK. So that's probably fine. | 16:57 |
| mgedmin | suggestion: can we somehow acquire the habit of updating the story descriptions on schooltool.org after we discuss features on irc in the future? | 16:57 |
| th1a | mgedmin: good point. | 16:57 |
| shapr | Maybe attendance could be efficiently and consistently saved as an entire day status with specific chunks of difference? | 16:58 |
| ignas | shapr, it is a bit more complicated than that ... | 16:58 |
| shapr | Ok, I'll look at the source. | 16:58 |
| mgedmin | it is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure it wins anything | 16:59 |
| shapr | It would associate period and day attendance. | 17:00 |
| mgedmin | everything gets tricky once you have half a million recorded attendances | 17:00 |
| th1a | I'm generating some new sample data to check the implementation. | 17:00 |
| mgedmin | currently we save a lot by reusing the same section attendance record object for all students in a section | 17:00 |
| th1a | Ah. | 17:02 |
| th1a | What does "No handlers could be found for logger "attendance" mean? | 17:02 |
| mgedmin | I think it means you do not have the attendance log file specified in schooltool.conf | 17:02 |
| mgedmin | look at schooltool.conf.in | 17:02 |
| mgedmin | inside schooltool-skel/etc (I think) | 17:03 |
| ignas | not in skel | 17:03 |
| ignas | iirc it's in schooltool directly iirc | 17:03 |
| ignas | but i might be wrong :/ | 17:03 |
| th1a | Right. I had an old schooltool.conf, so that'd probably do it. | 17:03 |
| mgedmin | wtf??? | 17:04 |
| mgedmin | we have two schooltool.conf.in files -- one in root, one in skel? | 17:04 |
| th1a | Is there one is skel? | 17:04 |
| mgedmin | uhh, so which is right? | 17:04 |
| ignas | the one not in skel i'd guess | 17:05 |
| th1a | Well, this is if you aren't working from an instance, right. | 17:05 |
| mgedmin | yippe, and the two files are quite different | 17:05 |
| th1a | If you actually install this properly, you'd be working from the one in skel? | 17:05 |
| mgedmin | probably | 17:06 |
| th1a | I think I understand why it ended up this way, but they certainly should be the same, I would think. | 17:07 |
| mgedmin | this needs a bit of sitting down and thinking | 17:07 |
| th1a | mgedmin: Are you standing? | 17:07 |
| mgedmin | preferably with jinty/srichter to explain how the skel is intended to be used | 17:07 |
| mgedmin | no, but I'm not thinking either | 17:08 |
| th1a | It looks like you are sitting in the picture. | 17:08 |
| th1a | By the way, I'm relieved it is getting warmer in Vilnius. | 17:08 |
| mgedmin | yep, it's +0°C right now | 17:08 |
| th1a | Yes, we should ask jinty how it is supposed to work. | 17:09 |
| th1a | OK... moving on... so POV will be ready for more work in about a week? | 17:09 |
| Aiste | nope | 17:10 |
| Aiste | more like two weeks | 17:10 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:10 |
| alga | th1a: I intend to move the tracker and the lists to the schooltool server this week | 17:10 |
| th1a | How much work is moving the tracker? We could just move to Malone now. | 17:11 |
| mgedmin | can malone import bugs from roundup? | 17:12 |
| th1a | You can ask SteveA. I think we'd have to write a script. | 17:12 |
| th1a | Perhaps we'd want to do it semi-manually to weed things out at the same time. | 17:13 |
| th1a | It is an open question. | 17:14 |
| th1a | I don't have strong feelings about it at this point. | 17:14 |
| mgedmin | I'm not very happy with roundup | 17:14 |
| mgedmin | but I haven't used malone much | 17:14 |
| mgedmin | a long time ago it was pretty inconvenient | 17:14 |
| mgedmin | now it is an unknown | 17:14 |
| th1a | I don't like roundup. | 17:14 |
| th1a | Well, I'll take another look at it. | 17:15 |
| th1a | They're using Malone for Breezy, so one assumes that it works at this point. | 17:16 |
| mgedmin | (and if it doesn't, it will start working Real Soon) | 17:16 |
| th1a | Anyhow... let's discuss the next contract. | 17:16 |
| th1a | Mostly, this will be refinements to the attendance system. | 17:17 |
| th1a | Making the workflow smarter. | 17:17 |
| th1a | Closing absences after a certain period of time. | 17:17 |
| alga | *sigh* | 17:17 |
| th1a | Allowing the user to chose from a configurable set of resolution codes. | 17:17 |
| th1a | alga: Any particular inspiration for your sigh? | 17:18 |
| alga | refining attendance sounds like dull work to me | 17:19 |
| alga | perhaps it's personal... | 17:19 |
| th1a | alga: Well, I know we've had you walking in circles for years. | 17:19 |
| Aiste | bugs | 17:19 |
| Aiste | bugs | 17:19 |
| Aiste | what about bugs? | 17:19 |
| th1a | We should mix in some calendar bugfixing, too. | 17:20 |
| ignas | yum yum | 17:20 |
| ignas | crunchy | 17:20 |
| th1a | If it will improve morale to do some calendar bugfixing first, perhaps you should do that. | 17:20 |
| th1a | Or some of both. | 17:21 |
| th1a | What's your preference? | 17:21 |
| th1a | Also, I'd be willing to give you latitude over which calendaring bugs to fix first, if you'd like it. | 17:22 |
| ignas | preference is - having enough time allocated for bugfixing so we could fix bugs/refactor code without being eaten alive by the deadline | 17:22 |
| ignas | while implementing new features | 17:22 |
| ignas | because most of the time it's like - oh it would be so easier to implement feature A if the bug B was fixed, but fixing that bug will take another day, and we are on tight schedule ... | 17:24 |
| th1a | At this point, I'm budgeted for six weeks of calendar bugfixing. | 17:24 |
| th1a | If you want to do that next, we could do that next. | 17:25 |
| th1a | I think that might make POV feel better. | 17:26 |
| Aiste | I second what ignas said | 17:26 |
| alga | ignas feels that fixing bugs parallel with development is better | 17:27 |
| alga | I concur | 17:27 |
| ignas | i'd prefer fixing bugs concurently to implementing features | 17:27 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:27 |
| ignas | because 100% dedication to bugfixing might be a bit too dangerous ;) | 17:27 |
| alga | hard to estimate | 17:27 |
| th1a | In that case, we'll allow 1/3 of the next contract for bugfixing? | 17:27 |
| ignas | we might like slip to needless refactoring/improvement of the codebase ... | 17:27 |
| ignas | 1/3 sound very sane | 17:28 |
| th1a | Well, there are plenty of specific bugs? | 17:28 |
| th1a | Should we specify specific bugs for the next contract as well as general bugfixing? | 17:28 |
| Aiste | th1a: what about this contract? is it done in your opinion? | 17:29 |
| th1a | I'm waiting for my sample data to finish generating... | 17:29 |
| th1a | Ah, there it is. | 17:29 |
| th1a | 1136 seconds. | 17:29 |
| alga | Congrats. | 17:29 |
| ignas | fanfares | 17:29 |
| * mgedmin wants to do an AJAXy progress bar for sample data | 17:30 | |
| mgedmin | (just to figure out how you make one) | 17:30 |
| ignas | and a spalsh screen :D | 17:30 |
| th1a | That would be nice. | 17:30 |
| ignas | *splash | 17:30 |
| Aiste | a spastic splash screen :D | 17:30 |
| alga | plastic | 17:30 |
| Aiste | :)) | 17:30 |
| ignas | with the crazy zebra! | 17:30 |
| th1a | I'll have to look this over and get back to you later. | 17:30 |
| th1a | Yes, we have to integrate Zonki into the UI now. | 17:31 |
| ignas | all proactive | 17:31 |
| th1a | Angry Zonki when you get an error. | 17:31 |
| th1a | Happy Zonki when you complete something difficult. | 17:31 |
| th1a | Dancing Zonki when the meeting is over. | 17:32 |
| Aiste | out of his mind zonki after generating sample data :) | 17:32 |
| mgedmin | sleeping Zonki while you generate sample data :) | 17:32 |
| ignas | are there things that are difficult in schooltool ? | 17:32 |
| * shapr grins | 17:32 | |
| th1a | Everything is easy with SchoolTool! | 17:32 |
| alga | Just Add Water (TM) | 17:33 |
| ignas | and 1 gb of ram | 17:33 |
| Aiste | It Just Works (TM) | 17:33 |
| ignas | benchmarking swapping algorithms of your operating system since 2006 January | 17:34 |
| th1a | OK, here's one issue: the sparklines are still slow. | 17:34 |
| ignas | :/ they should be like 5-6 times faster now | 17:34 |
| alga | 20 dynamically generated pictures -- what do you expect? | 17:35 |
| th1a | Well, perhaps it is a bit impractical. | 17:35 |
| mgedmin | th1a, how long does it take to generate those sparklines, and how many students do you have? | 17:35 |
| th1a | I'm counting about 8 seconds from when it starts drawing the first to the last one. | 17:36 |
| th1a | This looks like a pretty big class. | 17:36 |
| th1a | Would it be twice as fast if we only went back five days? | 17:37 |
| mgedmin | 8 seconds! | 17:37 |
| mgedmin | it used to be 50 seconds! | 17:38 |
| mgedmin | well, 43 | 17:38 |
| th1a | OK ;-) | 17:38 |
| mgedmin | between when I pressed the link, and the attendance form finished generation | 17:38 |
| mgedmin | actually, 2/3rds of that time was taken by the form itself, and only 1/3 by sparklines | 17:38 |
| mgedmin | (with, I believe, 20 students) | 17:38 |
| mgedmin | anyway, ok, if you take a fresh look at it, 8 seconds for a single page is too long | 17:39 |
| th1a | Would cutting it to the last five days make it faster? | 17:39 |
| ignas | back to the bat profiler ? | 17:39 |
| mgedmin | I suggest including time for optimisation as well as bug fixing | 17:39 |
| th1a | Twice as fast? | 17:39 |
| mgedmin | maybe, maybe not | 17:40 |
| * mgedmin checks his watch | 17:40 | |
| mgedmin | oh, my, look at the time | 17:40 |
| th1a | mgedmin: I just don't want to establish (any more than we have...) the idea that I'm paying you to create too slow implementations that you'll subsequently be paid to make usable. | 17:41 |
| th1a | Yes, our time is up. | 17:41 |
| mgedmin | good point | 17:41 |
| th1a | I'll look over this some more & get back to you. | 17:41 |
| mgedmin | ok | 17:41 |
| mgedmin | see you later | 17:41 |
| th1a | Thanks everyone. | 17:41 |
| *** mgedmin has quit IRC | 17:41 | |
| alga | bye | 17:42 |
| *** alga has quit IRC | 17:42 | |
| * th1a strikes the virtual gavel. | 17:42 | |
| ignas | bye | 17:42 |
| *** ignas has quit IRC | 17:42 | |
| Aiste | bye | 17:42 |
| *** vidasp has quit IRC | 17:42 | |
| th1a | shapr: A lot of the bugs in the tracker are calendaring/timezone bugs. | 17:42 |
| th1a | That stuff can be pretty baroque. | 17:43 |
| shapr | No promises that I'll pick hard bugs to start with :-) | 17:43 |
| th1a | I'm warning you away from it. | 17:43 |
| th1a | There are plenty of more surfacy bugs. | 17:44 |
| th1a | You might want to start by just playing with the app and cleaning up some of the more obvious UI gaffes. | 17:44 |
| shapr | I've dealt with somewhat baroque stuff before, ASN.1 and X.509 for RFC3161. I can now run with confidence. | 17:45 |
| th1a | OK, I don't even know what that is, so I'll take your word for it ;-) | 17:45 |
| shapr | If you want to know what it is, I'd be happy to tell you. In short, it's Public Key Infrastructure stuff. | 17:46 |
| th1a | Ah. | 17:46 |
| shapr | Necessary, but no fun. | 17:47 |
| th1a | Also, make sure and look at the "commendations" package. | 17:48 |
| th1a | That's our little tutorial. | 17:48 |
| * shapr looks | 17:50 | |
| shapr | th1a: There is something of a trick to TDD btw. (reading your blog) | 18:00 |
| th1a | Well, part of the trick is that you have to understand the whole system pretty well. | 18:01 |
| shapr | In my experience, good tests should both specify functionality and test external interfaces only. That allows you to refactor smoothly. | 18:01 |
| shapr | Yeah, true. If you write code that goes against the spirit of the system, it'll likely break some tests. | 18:02 |
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| th1a | Unfortunately, sometimes tests are just too brittle. | 18:03 |
| shapr | On the other hand, I'm a rabid fan of TDD, so I'm happy it's SOP for schooltool. | 18:03 |
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| * mgedmin reads logs | 18:14 | |
| * mgedmin thinks he hasn't yet found the sweet spot of unit tests (the right balance between white/black box testing and stubbing/using real objects) | 18:14 | |
| shapr | As many people know, I'm a fan of purely functional programming. In that paradigm, mock objects and unit tests are pretty much the same thing. | 18:15 |
| shapr | I've been looking for a good excuse to try peckcheck - http://www.accesscom.com/~darius/software/clickcheck.html | 18:17 |
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| Diosan | Good morning folks | 18:18 |
| Diosan | whats up | 18:18 |
| Diosan | am I interupting anything ? | 18:18 |
| th1a | No. | 18:18 |
| Diosan | I hope not | 18:18 |
| Diosan | I was hoping for some guidance | 18:19 |
| th1a | Our meeting ended 40 minutes ago. | 18:19 |
| Diosan | ok | 18:19 |
| Diosan | good to see there are still ppl in channel | 18:19 |
| th1a | There are usually at least a few of us around. | 18:20 |
| Diosan | yeah | 18:20 |
| Diosan | one of the things I noticed about this project | 18:20 |
| Diosan | I was trying to modify it possibly create a module | 18:20 |
| Diosan | but i am sure i am doing things all wrong | 18:20 |
| th1a | Yes. Did you look at the "commendations" package. | 18:20 |
| Diosan | even though i have been having sucess | 18:20 |
| Diosan | no ? | 18:21 |
| th1a | I need to figure out how to advertise that a bit more. | 18:21 |
| Diosan | whats that about ? | 18:21 |
| th1a | That's our tutorial, essentially. | 18:21 |
| th1a | For doing modules. | 18:21 |
| th1a | It is pretty recent. | 18:21 |
| Diosan | your kidding | 18:22 |
| Diosan | where do I get that | 18:22 |
| th1a | It is in the source tree. | 18:22 |
| th1a | In svn. | 18:22 |
| Diosan | I was basically reverse engineering the darn thing | 18:22 |
| th1a | Perhaps I should note that in the README... | 18:23 |
| Diosan | ok well I know I am idiot for even asking this question | 18:23 |
| Diosan | but schooltool is based on zope correct | 18:23 |
| th1a | That, and "devmode." Turn devmode on in your schooltool.conf, if you haven't. | 18:24 |
| th1a | SchoolTool is based on Zope 3. | 18:24 |
| th1a | Which is rather different than Zope 2. | 18:24 |
| Diosan | does that mean I can use Zopes interface to modify it ? | 18:24 |
| th1a | No. | 18:24 |
| Diosan | hmmm | 18:24 |
| Diosan | but considering I haven't turned on devmode | 18:24 |
| th1a | You have to work through the filesystem. | 18:24 |
| Diosan | that would probably be the first step | 18:24 |
| Diosan | ahhhh | 18:24 |
| th1a | Then you can access the API documentation. | 18:25 |
| Diosan | I basically using vi and kwrite to edit the files by hand right now | 18:25 |
| th1a | Clearly, I need to make these new features more obvious. | 18:25 |
| Diosan | AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! | 18:25 |
| Diosan | I see | 18:25 |
| Diosan | ;) | 18:25 |
| Diosan | yeah | 18:25 |
| Diosan | idiots like myself tend to miss things that aren't in bold size 43 font | 18:26 |
| th1a | Yes, there is no perfect place that everyone will see. | 18:26 |
| th1a | I'll make it more obvious, though. | 18:27 |
| th1a | Or at least I've added that to my to-do list. | 18:27 |
| th1a | Diosan: That should get you started. I'm going to take a shower now. | 18:27 |
| th1a | Diosan: Good luck. | 18:28 |
| Diosan | thanks alot ;) | 18:28 |
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| alga | th1a: can you create a user for me on the new server? | 18:44 |
| alga | with sudo rights | 18:44 |
| th1a | Yes. | 18:45 |
| shapr | I would be willing to do lots of bounty development for open source projects, but it's difficult to find hard details on who's willingto pay for what. | 18:46 |
| th1a | Mark integrating bounties into LaunchPad, which should help eventually. Have you seen http://launchpad.net? | 18:47 |
| th1a | Er. | 18:47 |
| shapr | th1a: My mother is a librarian in Muscle Shoals, Alabama and has several times asked me about library management with open source. Does schooltool have library management as part of its goals? | 18:47 |
| th1a | Not really. | 18:47 |
| shapr | Ok | 18:47 |
| th1a | There are other open source alternatives. | 18:48 |
| th1a | The one from New Zealand... | 18:48 |
| shapr | Launchpad does have some bounties. If they're kept up to date, I'll try some of them. | 18:50 |
| shapr | Thanks for the pointer. | 18:50 |
| shapr | I'd seen LaunchPad before, but hadn't checked the bounty list recently. | 18:50 |
| shapr | I do wish Rosetta would be released for general use. I could very much use it in my Plone contracts. | 18:51 |
| th1a | I expect LaunchPad will become a bigger deal in the coming year. | 18:51 |
| shapr | But an EU project has no business registering its PO files on the Rosetta instance designed for OSS projects. | 18:51 |
| shapr | So I'll keep on hand hacking PO files for my clients. | 18:52 |
| th1a | shapr: Ah. | 18:52 |
| th1a | So you work on EU projects? | 18:52 |
| shapr | Among other things. | 18:52 |
| shapr | If it's geeky and it pays (and isn't unethical), I can probably be persuaded to do it. | 18:52 |
| alga | th1a: please, I want to start migrating the tracker and mailing lists | 18:53 |
| th1a | Yes. | 18:53 |
| th1a | You're in there. | 18:53 |
| shapr | I met alga, aiste, SteveA, mgedmin, et al at EuroPython 2004. | 18:53 |
| alga | should I expect a password in the mail? | 18:53 |
| th1a | The password is the name of the restaurant you had lunch in (I think), lowercase, one word. | 18:53 |
| th1a | Try that. | 18:54 |
| th1a | That is, run the two words together. | 18:54 |
| alga | OK, thanks, I'm in | 18:54 |
| shapr | I run my own colocated server, mostly to host OSS projects for the Haskell community. I do make some money from hosting, sysadmin, and email there. | 18:55 |
| shapr | If I had all the money I could ever want, I'd probably get a CS degree and then a PhD in type theory or proof programming. | 18:56 |
| th1a | Once we have our core system done, I'll be spending more time looking for outside funding, from the EU, UNSECO, etc. | 18:56 |
| th1a | So having people around who know that world is helpful. | 18:56 |
| shapr | th1a: What about you? Your blog says you used to work at a high school, and that matches XP's "put a customer on the dev team" philosophy. | 18:56 |
| th1a | I wouldn't go back to school unless I had to. | 18:57 |
| shapr | I never really went the first time :-) | 18:57 |
| th1a | I was an English major. | 18:57 |
| th1a | But at Carnegie Mellon, so I learned by osmosis. | 18:58 |
| shapr | In my experience, language or writing majors seem to be the primary 'import' profession for programming. | 18:58 |
| shapr | I don't think that's an accident, but I don't know the connection. | 18:58 |
| shapr | Nice school. | 18:59 |
| alga | +1 | 18:59 |
| Diosan | hey folks not to interupt again | 18:59 |
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| rhs_ | greetings all | 19:00 |
| th1a | Both Zope 3 books were written by Physics grad students. | 19:00 |
| th1a | hi rhs_ | 19:00 |
| rhs_ | we finished with Vietnamese translation for st-setup, st-admin, st-using. Where could I send them to? | 19:00 |
| th1a | Ah, wow! I guess send them to me: tom.hoffman@gmail.com | 19:01 |
| alga | wow | 19:02 |
| Diosan | ]I am not seeing the line in my schooltool.conf that refers to devmode | 19:02 |
| th1a | Clearly I need to start using a free software toolchain for those presentation. | 19:02 |
| srichter | th1a: (though Phillip is not a grad student yet ;-) | 19:02 |
| rhs_ | th1a here is a demo :) Sorry it's all Vietnamese :) http://www.vnlinux.org/livecd/wikka.php?wakka=SchoolToolSetup | 19:03 |
| th1a | Diosan: it isn't around the last line? If not, just add "devmode on" | 19:04 |
| Diosan | ok | 19:04 |
| Diosan | ok i did | 19:04 |
| Diosan | when i tried to start school tool with '/sbin/service schooltool start' it throws the error 'devmode is not a known key name' | 19:05 |
| th1a | rhs_: There are actually lots of Vietnamese in my neighborhood here (in Providence, RI, USA). | 19:05 |
| th1a | Vietnamese, Cambodian, Laotian, Thai... | 19:06 |
| th1a | Lots of students in our school. | 19:06 |
| th1a | rhs_ Did you use OpenOffice for this? | 19:07 |
| rhs_ | yup. You've got mail, btw. | 19:09 |
| rhs_ | fyi, i'm working on VnlinuxEDU which has SchoolTool in it. We plan to set up a student lab in VN around August 2006. I have to flight back there. I'm in Houston, TX. | 19:10 |
| th1a | Ah. | 19:10 |
| th1a | SchoolTool will do a lot more by August. | 19:11 |
| rhs_ | awesome! | 19:11 |
| th1a | Actually, I guess any time someone translates a graphical set of instructions like this, it'll have to be done mostly from scratch, since all the screenshots have to be in the new language as well. | 19:12 |
| th1a | It isn't just a matter of changing the text strings. | 19:12 |
| Diosan | fyi im in trinidad and tobago | 19:13 |
| Diosan | in the caribbean | 19:13 |
| rhs_ | yeah, but it's a good start I guess. To get things going. :) | 19:13 |
| Diosan | hoping to dpelo schooltool as a solution across the entire education system here if i can add a few other odds and ends | 19:14 |
| th1a | Yes. Easier to follow something that exists. | 19:14 |
| th1a | Diosan: So you'd want to host it centrally? | 19:15 |
| Diosan | yeah | 19:15 |
| Diosan | but i have to get this test site done first before it is considered seriously | 19:16 |
| th1a | Of course ;-) | 19:16 |
| th1a | We used to support adding SchoolTool instances as Zope 3 content objects, so you could have multiple schools on one Zope 3 server instance. | 19:17 |
| th1a | But we need to cut down on our development overhead, so we stopped doing that. | 19:18 |
| th1a | But if you had some money to implement this, it would be one thing you'd want to do or have done. | 19:18 |
| th1a | If you want to host lots of SchoolTool instances. | 19:18 |
| mgedmin | so, th1a, what do you think about attendance features? | 19:22 |
| mgedmin | is there anything that needs fixing/updating? | 19:22 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5711: | 19:22 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Added a missing i18n:translate="". | 19:22 |
| th1a | mgedmin: I'll have an answer for you first thing in the morning. | 19:23 |
| * th1a has to go to school to get some more info to finish setting up their SchoolTool instance | 19:26 | |
| Diosan | ok good luck | 19:28 |
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| erchache | th1a: i send to you two files via gmail account | 19:32 |
| Diosan | hmmmmm | 19:34 |
| Diosan | once again | 19:34 |
| Diosan | im an idiot | 19:34 |
| Diosan | will explain later | 19:34 |
| Diosan | brb | 19:34 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5712: | 20:11 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Reenable sample data functional test, but with more limited scope. Now the test takes 240 megs of RAM instead of 700. | 20:11 |
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