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| Toothpick | Is there going to be an assessment portion to this? I currently use Thinkwave educator but would like a linux alternative. | 02:04 |
|---|---|---|
| Toothpick | http://www.schooltool.org/products/gradebook | 02:06 |
| Toothpick | I am still reading ;) | 02:06 |
| Toothpick | Have you tried thinkwave educator? | 02:37 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 5254: | 15:45 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: The timetable slots redesign ============================ | 15:45 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: In essence, now SchooldayTemplates contain sets of slots that are now not bound to periods, and are just assigned to them in chronological order. | 15:45 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Concrete steps taken: | 15:45 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * renamed SchooldayPeriod to SchooldaySlot * removed the period title attribute from SchooldaySlot * left the id="" attribute as optional in the timetable schema REST RNG schema * fix lots of tests * fix the slots part of the advanced timetable schema wizard | 15:45 |
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| Welsh | jinty: did you note Paul's ready for you again??? | 16:38 |
| jinty | yeah, busy building right now | 16:39 |
| Welsh | you are the man!!! | 16:41 |
| Welsh | as you may have seen in the e-mail, the bug we're fixing is critical | 16:42 |
| Welsh | it was effecting the numbers themselves. | 16:42 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5255: | 16:44 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Merged bugfix for issue347: pressing Enter in search box removes members. | 16:44 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Commands used for merging: | 16:44 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: BASE=svn+ssh://source.schooltool.org/svn/schooltool/trunk/schooltool/src svn merge -r 5135:5136 $BASE/schooltool/course/browser/section_instructors.pt \ | 16:44 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: src/schooltool/browser/templates/section_instructors.pt | 16:44 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: svn merge -r 5135:5136 $BASE/schooltool/group/browser/members.pt \ | 16:44 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: src/schoolbell/app/browser/templates/members.pt | 16:44 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: svn merge -r 5135:5136 $BASE/schooltool/group/browser/groups.pt \ | 16:44 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: src/schoolbell/app/browser/templates/groups.pt | 16:44 |
| jinty | Welsh: done | 16:46 |
| Welsh | can I apt-get update and upgrade??? | 16:48 |
| jinty | yeah | 16:48 |
| Welsh | here we go. Will let you know what happens. | 16:48 |
| jinty | these update are small, so pretty easy to churn out... | 16:49 |
| jinty | mgedmin: any objections to a schooltool.i18n module (template extractor)? | 16:50 |
| jinty | anyone else? | 16:50 |
| mgedmin | jinty, just a sec... | 16:51 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 5256: | 17:27 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Revert revision 4356. Readd the rotating schedule with different slots on different weekdays. All tests pass, but a little fix is still needed. | 17:27 |
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| erchache | hi | 17:38 |
| th1a | Hi. | 17:38 |
| erchache | im fighting with mediawiki software.....are toooooo baaaaaad documented! | 17:42 |
| erchache | bad no....nothing! | 17:42 |
| erchache | and programmers pass of me | 17:42 |
| th1a | erchache: We're Python programmers. | 17:43 |
| erchache | i know :-( | 17:43 |
| erchache | i dont like programming....i hate programming.....here on spain....programmers are the levinsky of profession | 17:44 |
| erchache | bad pay....bad contract....bad recognized | 17:44 |
| erchache | and much hard work | 17:44 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 5257: | 17:44 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Restored the graphs to the state of r4356, to go along with merge in r5256. | 17:44 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: cd src/schooltool/app/browser/ftests svn merge -r 4358:4357 svn+ssh://source.schooltool.org/svn/schooltool/trunk/schooltool/src/schooltool/browser/ftests/@4357 | 17:44 |
| th1a | Levinsky? | 17:45 |
| erchache | the bitchs | 17:45 |
| erchache | more explicit | 17:45 |
| erchache | sorry | 17:45 |
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| Welsh | jinty: the fixes worked; great job. | 18:00 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 5258: | 18:07 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: FHS timetable model now fully supported by the ttwizard. th1a: want to give it a try? | 18:07 |
| alga | :) | 18:07 |
| th1a | alga: Sure. | 18:08 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5259: | 18:16 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Backported fix for issue368: deleting group blows away calendar access. Revisions 5039, 5040 were merged manually. | 18:16 |
| th1a | alga: So far, so good. | 18:28 |
| th1a | alga: Eureka! | 18:31 |
| th1a | alga: It appears to work. Great job. | 18:31 |
| th1a | Sweet! | 18:35 |
| th1a | Let me also say that determining whether or not something actually works is much easier now that I've got a full load of test data. | 18:35 |
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| alga | True, true. Sample data is very useful. | 18:43 |
| alga | But perhaps too slow for most uses. | 18:44 |
| th1a | Too slow to generate? | 18:44 |
| alga | yes | 18:44 |
| alga | It was up to 2.5 minutes on my machine before we started to optimize the generation | 18:44 |
| alga | now it's still well over a minute | 18:45 |
| mgedmin | and it eats a lot of RAM | 18:46 |
| mgedmin | 200 megs or so | 18:46 |
| th1a | It isn't exactly something that was to be done frequently. | 18:46 |
| mgedmin | while the Data.fs itself is only 50 megs | 18:46 |
| th1a | That's not bad. | 18:46 |
| th1a | Did you guys read the email I sent last night about focusing on a small number of test schools for next year? | 18:48 |
| * mgedmin hasn't yet | 18:49 | |
| th1a | It should make you happy, I think. | 18:49 |
| ignas | well ... | 18:52 |
| th1a | Well, good news/bad news. | 18:52 |
| th1a | Good news, no handwavey meta-demographics system. | 18:52 |
| th1a | Bad news, several custom versions to keep in sync. | 18:52 |
| th1a | But that should inspire you to figure out how to make a more general system. | 18:53 |
| th1a | Once we understand the problem better. | 18:53 |
| ignas | bad news - we are ignoring our users and currently sticking to the greater plan | 18:53 |
| th1a | On calendaring? | 18:53 |
| ignas | timezones, resources booking, timetabling in general ... | 18:54 |
| th1a | Well, making the SIS functionality simpler also will give us more time to fix those things. | 18:54 |
| ignas | SIS ? | 18:55 |
| th1a | But if we don't have a student information system (SIS) by spring, we might as well fold up the whole tent and go home. | 18:55 |
| th1a | This is not, ultimately, a calendaring project. | 18:55 |
| th1a | I am confident that we'll have a rock solid calendar server next fall. | 18:57 |
| th1a | You have to remember we're on a kind of strict annual schedule. | 18:57 |
| ignas | I see | 18:58 |
| th1a | Any significant deployment of SchoolTool calendar isn't really going to happen until next summer anyhow. | 18:58 |
| th1a | The people who have deployed it now knew what they were getting into. | 18:59 |
| ignas | who would deploy a SIS without functioning calendaring? | 18:59 |
| th1a | pips is a special case. | 18:59 |
| th1a | But he's only one person. | 18:59 |
| th1a | Calendaring isn't generally considered an SIS function at all. | 18:59 |
| th1a | I mean, the SIS has to understand the timetable. | 18:59 |
| th1a | But SIS's aren't full featured calendar servers. | 19:00 |
| th1a | That's why we made SchoolTool Calendar. It is functionality that few schools have. | 19:00 |
| alga | th1a: but you agree that we have to keep fixing problems with timetables, booking, and timezones in the background? | 19:02 |
| th1a | Yes. Again, that's also part of the reason to simplify the requirements. | 19:02 |
| alga | and make bugfix releases to cater to our early adopters? | 19:02 |
| ignas | so at the moment we have a core that is not usable by anyone - it is not a SIS, it is not a calendaring server :/ and we spent a lot of time geting here ... | 19:03 |
| th1a | We have a fairly ambitious calendar server/resource scheduler which doesn't meet all of tis goals but is being used as a straightforward calendar server. | 19:04 |
| th1a | Going forward, I need you guys to indicate to me what the most important fixes to the current application are. | 19:05 |
| ignas | ok | 19:06 |
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| th1a | Or to put it another way, we'll need to estimate the amount of time needed to do the first iteration of attendance, subtract that from the number of POV developer hours available to SchoolTool, and the remainder is can be used to do more calendaring fixes. | 19:07 |
| th1a | Number of POV hours between now and Christmas. | 19:08 |
| th1a | And you guys can tell me what needs to be fixed. You have a much better handle on that at this point. | 19:09 |
| ignas | i guess we'll create a text document describing current issues with calendaring/reosurces/timetables | 19:09 |
| ignas | and then maybe we should give our users some way to tell us which issues they deem more important | 19:11 |
| ignas | th1a, what do you think about doing a release of our TRUNK some time this or next year | 19:12 |
| ignas | that would reduce the time needed for backports | 19:12 |
| th1a | Well, yes, we do plan on releasing the TRUNK eventually ;-) | 19:12 |
| th1a | It is not an academic exercise. | 19:12 |
| ignas | what i mean - release trunk before our spring release (the one we will have full SIS functionality) | 19:13 |
| th1a | If we're going to continue to fix calendaring, then that would be a good idea. | 19:14 |
| th1a | I wasn't planning on doing a lot of backporting forever. | 19:14 |
| th1a | So that could potentially happen as early as Christmas. | 19:14 |
| ignas | oh, and what should be the place of publishing discussions like this so people who are not using IRC would know what is going on, and maybe even comment on matters ? | 19:15 |
| th1a | I'm going to be writing some emails. | 19:16 |
| erchache | hehehehe i can convert to utf-8 mediawiki software....without fails.... | 19:16 |
| jinty | th1a: we can make releases, but no packages until the current zope trunk is released | 19:16 |
| erchache | i can believe it! | 19:16 |
| th1a | jinty: OK, OK. | 19:17 |
| jinty | yeah, I know I sound like a broken record;) | 19:18 |
| th1a | ignas: Also, it would be great if you could write up your suggestions as enhancement proposals on the website ;-) | 19:18 |
| ignas | i'll write them up in a simple text file first, then when the list will be formalized enough - yes of course | 19:19 |
| th1a | OK. Fair enough. | 19:20 |
| th1a | jinty: Clearly, I require a broken record on some issues. | 19:21 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5260: | 20:04 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Relationship events now include extra_info. | 20:04 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5261: | 20:07 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Relationship events now include extra_info. | 20:07 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Merged from trunk, as this is a prerequisite for fixing issue 367 (duplicate timetable events in overlays): | 20:07 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: svn merge -r 5259:5260 \ | 20:07 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: svn+ssh://source.schooltool.org/svn/schooltool/trunk/schooltool/src/schooltool/relationship \ src/schoolbell/relationship/ | 20:07 |
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| erchache | bye | 20:22 |
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| jelkner | th1a: tom, you here? | 20:24 |
| th1a | I am. | 20:24 |
| jelkner | do you have a few minutes? | 20:24 |
| th1a | Did you figure out how to register yourself? | 20:24 |
| th1a | I do. | 20:25 |
| jelkner | no | 20:25 |
| th1a | Do you want to call me? | 20:25 |
| jelkner | but we could just chat here | 20:25 |
| th1a | OK. | 20:25 |
| jelkner | ok | 20:25 |
| jelkner | never mind, here is fine | 20:25 |
| th1a | OK. | 20:25 |
| jelkner | i wanted to discuss this whole schooltool commercial support thing | 20:25 |
| th1a | Yes. | 20:26 |
| jelkner | other folks may have thoughts | 20:26 |
| jelkner | i really want to move toward commercial support for cando | 20:26 |
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| th1a | Well, I suppose the good think about commercial support is that you're paying people to do it. | 20:27 |
| th1a | ;-) | 20:27 |
| jelkner | it is the next step in getting folks here in arlington (and in virginia more broadly) to accept free software as legitimate | 20:27 |
| jelkner | indeed | 20:27 |
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| th1a | I'm not sure that you can have commercial support without commercial development though. | 20:27 |
| jelkner | i've been on a crusand to explain that free software doesn't mean no cost | 20:28 |
| jelkner | our school system spends millions of dollars on crap software that doesn't meet our needs | 20:28 |
| jelkner | (any way, you know all that...) | 20:28 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5262: | 20:28 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Changes in batching tests: | 20:29 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: - Added functional test. - Corrected batching template, | 20:29 |
| jelkner | i agree, so what i'm talking about is commercial development | 20:29 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: relative links changed into absolute links. This can be considered as workaround, becouse testbrowser incorrectly interprets links of a form href="?whatever". | 20:29 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: - Removed doctests from README.TXT | 20:29 |
| * mgedmin drops a url: http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/jimgris?entry=opensolaris_lessons_learned | 20:29 | |
| jelkner | and commercial support | 20:29 |
| th1a | OK. So you're also kind of talking about CanDo 3.0. | 20:29 |
| jelkner | CanDo 2006 | 20:29 |
| th1a | Yes. | 20:30 |
| jelkner | what i'm hoping for is this, after a year of using cando 2005, folks around the state (and beyond) will be clamoring for more | 20:30 |
| th1a | OK. | 20:31 |
| jelkner | this already seems to be happening, so it is not a stretch to imagine it will work out that way | 20:31 |
| th1a | You need Zope 3 hackers. | 20:31 |
| jelkner | yup | 20:31 |
| th1a | There is a limited supply. | 20:31 |
| th1a | You can't have mine. | 20:31 |
| th1a | ;-) | 20:32 |
| jelkner | fair enough, but there is more... | 20:32 |
| jelkner | i want to grow the number of zope 3 hackers | 20:32 |
| jelkner | and i want my top students to know that they have jobs waiting for them if they learn to hack zope 3 | 20:32 |
| jelkner | and schooltool in particular | 20:32 |
| jelkner | paul is a perfect example | 20:33 |
| th1a | Certainly. | 20:33 |
| jelkner | the way this relationship has been working out has been fantastic | 20:33 |
| th1a | I wonder if you could work something out with Zope Corp. | 20:33 |
| jelkner | i just want to build on it and extend it and formalize it a bit more in the future | 20:33 |
| th1a | Absolutely. | 20:34 |
| jelkner | i could talk to zope corp | 20:34 |
| th1a | I have no idea if they're wildly more expensive. | 20:34 |
| jelkner | they have some advantages here | 20:35 |
| jelkner | they are a va based company | 20:35 |
| jelkner | which plays well politically | 20:35 |
| th1a | That is what I was thinking. | 20:35 |
| jelkner | but what we are really interested in is schooltool | 20:35 |
| jelkner | so i wanted to start with you | 20:35 |
| th1a | A stronger SchoolTool/Zope Corp. connection would be a great asset. | 20:36 |
| jelkner | let's talk more about this in montreal | 20:36 |
| jelkner | but think about it | 20:36 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5263: | 20:37 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fixed http://issues.schooltool.org/issue367 (personal calendar shows every event twice) in the release branch. | 20:37 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: The fix is much nicer than the one applied on trunk, I'm considering forward-porting it. | 20:37 |
| jelkner | i want to work out some kind of plan with you that i can pursue... | 20:37 |
| jelkner | now, on another related note | 20:37 |
| jelkner | i have another project idea | 20:37 |
| jelkner | we have something called STAN | 20:37 |
| jelkner | the Arlington Substitute Assignment Network | 20:38 |
| th1a | Yes, you mentioned that. | 20:38 |
| jelkner | well, i'd love to try to convince APS (alrington public schools) that STAN could be augmented with a web interface built on schooltool | 20:39 |
| th1a | Hm... interfacing the phone part with a web part might be tricky. | 20:40 |
| jelkner | in addition to being a bad personal itch i'd love to scratch (i hate STAN!), it has the following strategic advantages | 20:41 |
| th1a | I have no idea. | 20:41 |
| jelkner | have no idea about what? | 20:41 |
| jelkner | i'm not asking you how to convince them | 20:41 |
| jelkner | that would be my job | 20:41 |
| jelkner | what i'm asking you to think about is if i were able to convince them, and they wanted to hire someone to do it, who would they call? | 20:42 |
| th1a | No, I mean, I have no idea how difficult it would be integrating a phone system with a web system. | 20:42 |
| th1a | Phone stuff is magic to me. | 20:42 |
| jelkner | i don't think it would be difficult at all | 20:42 |
| jelkner | it's all just bits, after all ;-) | 20:42 |
| th1a | Yes, but perhaps old, proprietary bits. | 20:43 |
| jelkner | not that old | 20:43 |
| th1a | Anyhow, I think you should use whatever contacts you have at Zope Corp. first, since they're local, and see what they think. | 20:43 |
| th1a | I really have no idea of what they'll say. | 20:43 |
| th1a | But if something can be worked out, that would be the best case. | 20:44 |
| jelkner | i'll do that, but i have other options as well | 20:44 |
| jelkner | devis.com is a local company that does zope development | 20:44 |
| jelkner | i know the president, and place my top students as interns there | 20:45 |
| jelkner | a few have been hired by them | 20:45 |
| jelkner | but tom, you are surprising me | 20:45 |
| jelkner | i'm assuming shuttleworth foundation eventually wants to get some business from schooltool, am i wrong? | 20:46 |
| jelkner | or not shuttleworth foundation (a non-profit), but perhaps cannonical | 20:46 |
| th1a | I have no relationship to Canonical. | 20:46 |
| th1a | Nobody from Canonical works on SchoolTool or vice versa. | 20:47 |
| th1a | devis.com sounds promising. | 20:47 |
| jelkner | ok, but schooltool will not be able to fullfill its mission if real institutions don't start using it | 20:47 |
| jelkner | and they won't start using it until they can get commercial support for is | 20:48 |
| th1a | Real institutions use Moodle. | 20:48 |
| jelkner | s/it/is | 20:48 |
| jelkner | a bit different animal | 20:48 |
| jelkner | moodle is for content | 20:48 |
| jelkner | schooltool is for mission critical data | 20:49 |
| jelkner | moodle replaces blackboard, and even there, it is sometimes hard to get systems to use moodle (which is better) since it is hard to pay for it | 20:49 |
| jelkner | anyway, i will follow up with devis | 20:50 |
| jelkner | but i'm convinced schooltool is going to have to find a way for support to be available on a broader scale | 20:51 |
| jelkner | or are you just hoping that if you deliver the tool, local support companies will spring up to fill the need? | 20:51 |
| th1a | I guess my point is that I'd rather see local independent companies support SchoolTool than try to build a central service. | 20:51 |
| jelkner | the beauty of free software is that you can have both | 20:52 |
| jelkner | i agree that local support is great | 20:52 |
| th1a | Plus, I only have resources for writing software. | 20:52 |
| jelkner | but there is chicken/egg problem here | 20:52 |
| jelkner | we can't build a local support company until we have a product | 20:53 |
| jelkner | and we can't have a product until we have support | 20:53 |
| jelkner | you may argue with the second part | 20:53 |
| jelkner | but if i've learned anything from the cando experience, it is that XP works | 20:53 |
| th1a | Well, you have CanDo, and a potential market for CanDo. | 20:53 |
| jelkner | and the most critical aspect here was the on-sight customer | 20:53 |
| jelkner | cando does what the career center teachers want it to do | 20:54 |
| jelkner | since they were part of the development process | 20:54 |
| jelkner | the same needs to happen for the rest of schooltool | 20:55 |
| jelkner | it will be great to the degree that real users are involved in developing the specifications for it | 20:55 |
| jelkner | we have an opportunity to turn ACC (arlington career center) teachers into users of other parts of schooltoool | 20:56 |
| th1a | OK, that's a different question. | 20:56 |
| jelkner | oops, i'm late! | 20:57 |
| jelkner | gotta run... | 20:57 |
| jelkner | cya | 20:57 |
| th1a | Bye. | 20:57 |
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| tav | hey sweet people | 21:11 |
| tav | how do i get hold of schoolbell svn checkout ? | 21:12 |
| tav | src/schoolbell seems to be "deprecated" | 21:12 |
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| th1a | Hi tav. | 21:12 |
| th1a | Here's the deal. | 21:12 |
| * tav waves to tom | 21:12 | |
| th1a | You can check out the last SchoolBell branch. | 21:13 |
| th1a | Or... | 21:13 |
| th1a | Future SchoolBell releases will be generated from the SchoolTool trunk. | 21:13 |
| mgedmin | Why oh why can't buildbot announce failed builds on IRC? | 21:14 |
| th1a | Using some zpkging voodoo to be named later. | 21:14 |
| * mgedmin sighs | 21:14 | |
| th1a | tav: What specifically are you interested in doing? | 21:14 |
| tav | hmz | 21:15 |
| tav | so, schooltool trunk is effectively schoolbell trunk | 21:15 |
| th1a | Yes. | 21:15 |
| th1a | Makes things much more rational for us going forward. | 21:17 |
| tav | makes sense | 21:20 |
| th1a | mgedmin: Do you wan to elaborate on the relevance of the OpenSolaris article? | 21:29 |
| mgedmin | um, no ;) | 21:32 |
| mgedmin | just some ideas about building a successful community | 21:33 |
| * mgedmin dreams about random users sending patches to fix bugs in schooltool | 21:33 | |
| th1a | Well, that's a different sort of question. | 21:33 |
| mgedmin | yay, buildbot is unstuck! | 21:33 |
| th1a | This is not an application where users are also developers. | 21:34 |
| th1a | Also, we would get more patches if we'd rewrite SchoolTool in PHP. | 21:34 |
| * th1a ponders giving mgedmin that task. | 21:35 | |
| th1a | It is not alarming that now that real people are really using our app we're getting: | 21:37 |
| th1a | a) bug reports; | 21:37 |
| th1a | b) requests for functionality we considered but didn't have time for; | 21:38 |
| th1a | c) reports of what amount to requirements bugs (timetables and room reservation). | 21:40 |
| th1a | We can get more eyeballs on the requirements process to cut down on c), but I think the burden is mostly on me to do a better job. | 21:41 |
| ignas | it indicates a gap between users of the application and developers though. Most of GIMP developers are professional GIMP users, firefox developers know w3c specs of html/css, yet i am afraid i was geting lost in sections/courses and timetabling before I began implementing real data imports ... | 21:43 |
| ignas | same for timezones | 21:43 |
| th1a | ignas: That is what makes this a difficult open source project. | 21:43 |
| ignas | and most of our current/potential users don't even know what is an "svn checkout" | 21:44 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5264: | 21:45 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Bring the test runners in the release branch up to date. | 21:45 |
| th1a | If this project should fail, I think the relative difficulty of Zope 3 development would have to take a big part of the blame. | 21:47 |
| th1a | It has been a huge roadblock to bringing in outside developers. | 21:47 |
| th1a | Difficulty and current obscurity. | 21:48 |
| th1a | And anti-Zope attitudes. | 21:48 |
| th1a | Of course, I've placed my bet that it will all work out ;-) | 21:49 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5265: | 21:50 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fix ftests that were broken in rev 5255. | 21:50 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5266: | 21:54 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Backported fix for issue 379: PDF views show event times in UTC rather than the timezone that was selected | 21:54 |
| srichter | do I smell a depression here? | 21:58 |
| srichter | :-) | 21:59 |
| th1a | I knew you would chime in eventually, srichter. | 21:59 |
| srichter | I am not crippled anymore ;-) | 22:01 |
| srichter | first of all, let me say that SchoolTool, much like Zope, is a very difficult Open Source project, because of the narrow target audience | 22:02 |
| th1a | That's a relief. | 22:02 |
| ignas | srichter, would you use schooltool.calendar for your projects that need calendaring ? :) | 22:03 |
| th1a | Your not being crippled, that is. | 22:03 |
| th1a | srichter doesn't need timetables. | 22:03 |
| ignas | schooltool.calendar | 22:03 |
| ignas | does not have timetables | 22:03 |
| th1a | ignas: You're right. | 22:03 |
| srichter | ignas: I don't know how capable schooltool.calendar is | 22:05 |
| srichter | but, I think schooltool.relationship looks very interesting | 22:06 |
| srichter | I would consider it definitely for another project | 22:06 |
| th1a | ignas: Would you use schooltool.calendar? | 22:06 |
| ignas | problem 1 - document ST.calendar and advertise it so at least developers would know they must use it :) | 22:06 |
| th1a | Wait, whose job is it to write developer documentation? | 22:07 |
| ignas | th1a, nope, it depends on Zope3 so ST.calendar would be too heavy for a simple project | 22:07 |
| * jinty is busy bludgening at CalZope at the moment. Main issue: fit in with a Zope2.8 site. | 22:07 | |
| srichter | how heavy does it depend on Zope 3? | 22:07 |
| ignas | srichter, not very i guess, annotations, interfaces | 22:07 |
| th1a | And for that matter, whose job is it to evangelize to developers. | 22:07 |
| srichter | so, it has just a few package dependencies, not bad | 22:08 |
| ignas | we have a website for such things | 22:08 |
| th1a | I've done as much developer evangelism as a non-developer can do. | 22:08 |
| th1a | Not so much on the website, | 22:08 |
| th1a | but on mailing lists, conferences. | 22:08 |
| srichter | I think the key is patience | 22:08 |
| ignas | oh :) | 22:08 |
| ignas | then i should get some :D | 22:08 |
| srichter | once SchoolTool is known as an application, people will look at other components too | 22:09 |
| th1a | Realistically, evangelism to Zope 3 developers has to come from other Zope 3 developers, i.e., you guys. | 22:09 |
| th1a | You are right that we could have more promotion of the library on the website. | 22:10 |
| ignas | srichter, from mine perspective - if it's not packeged - i won't consider it :) i want libraries to save my time not consume it | 22:10 |
| srichter | so promote it | 22:10 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5267: | 22:10 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Readded 'Show All'/'Show Less' button to batch navigation macros. Fixes issue 368 in the release branch. | 22:10 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Produced by | 22:10 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: svn merge -r 5240:5243 \ | 22:10 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: svn+ssh://source.schooltool.org/svn/schooltool/trunk/schooltool/src/schooltool/batching \ src/schoolbell/batching/ | 22:10 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: svn+ssh://source.schooltool.org/svn/schooltool/trunk/schooltool/src/schooltool/app/browser/resources/layout.css \ src/schoolbell/app/browser/resources/style.css | 22:10 |
| mgedmin | th1a, the README of schooltool.calendar list its dependencies on Z3 libs | 22:11 |
| th1a | Overall, I can't say that pushing the calendaring library is a big priority for me, although I understand why it is important. | 22:11 |
| mgedmin | it is not very heavy | 22:11 |
| th1a | I didn't say it was heavy, ignas did. | 22:11 |
| srichter | I am with Tom | 22:12 |
| srichter | pushing any sub-library of schooltool costs resources | 22:12 |
| th1a | Plus there is competition. | 22:12 |
| mgedmin | let's fix bugs in ST first | 22:12 |
| srichter | and publishing libraries is not our goal | 22:12 |
| th1a | When we got the idea to push calendaring, it was an obvious gap. | 22:13 |
| th1a | In open source and Python. | 22:13 |
| th1a | Not so much anymore. | 22:13 |
| srichter | I think SchoolTool has a great niche that we should exploit as much as possible | 22:13 |
| mgedmin | srichter, btw, IManagerWorkItems seems incomplete to me -- it only has one item, while views use other things | 22:13 |
| srichter | this does not mean that we have to neglect good software design | 22:13 |
| ignas | i thought one of our goals was geting someone else to fix bugs in schooltool.calendar :D | 22:13 |
| srichter | mgedmin: what do you mean? | 22:13 |
| th1a | Well, there is a real risk that we'd spend more time doing promotion than we'd get back in bug fixes. | 22:14 |
| th1a | Or at least they'd end up roughly equal. | 22:14 |
| mgedmin | srichter, look at IManagerWorkItems | 22:15 |
| mgedmin | srichter, then look at usages of it | 22:15 |
| mgedmin | e.g. src/schooltool/level/rest/record.py:62: for item in interfaces.IManagerWorkItems(manager).items | 22:15 |
| th1a | I have to run for a bit. | 22:15 |
| mgedmin | that view uses IMangerWorkItems.items, which is not declared in the interface | 22:15 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 5268: | 22:15 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fix exception days with the new slots design. | 22:15 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Before this change, exceptionDays could not cancel a period in the middle of the day, only in the end. | 22:15 |
| srichter | oh, I see | 22:16 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5269: | 22:16 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Backported bug fix for Issue381 (broken monthly recurrence rules) revision 5145. | 22:16 |
| srichter | ok, file a bug and assign it to me | 22:16 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5270: | 22:16 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Oops! I broke ftests again. | 22:16 |
| mgedmin | did zope 3 suddenly start including docutils or what? | 22:22 |
| srichter | it has it for a very long time | 22:23 |
| srichter | it was already in X3.0 | 22:23 |
| mgedmin | why does subversion complain then? | 22:24 |
| * mgedmin sighs | 22:24 | |
| srichter | what do you mean? | 22:24 |
| mgedmin | 'make update' aborted with a subversion complaint, and buildbot broke down again :-/ | 22:25 |
| * mgedmin puts on his sysadmin hat | 22:25 | |
| srichter | huh, strange | 22:26 |
| tiredbones | I'm chimming in late, but I think as more people learn Zope 3 technologie, ST will take off. There is a big need for it. Also I wouldn't worry about selling it, it will sell itself in time. Back to lurking!. | 22:27 |
| mgedmin | tiredbones, thanks for the kind words | 22:32 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5271: | 22:32 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fix for issue 405: TypeError, _insufficientContext on 'weekly' view. | 22:32 |
| th1a | tiredbones: I'm not worried in the long run either. | 22:34 |
| mgedmin | I sometimes am... | 22:37 |
| *** alga has quit IRC | 22:38 | |
| th1a | Well, I worry... | 22:38 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5272: | 22:43 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Added functional test for multi-batch. | 22:43 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5273: | 22:45 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Added unquote_uri from trunk. | 22:45 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5274: | 22:46 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Added missing namespace declarations. | 22:46 |
| mgedmin | ok, now buildbot will not try to run 'make update' | 22:50 |
| mgedmin | instead it will execute separate svn checkout/update steps for schooltool, Zope 3, and zpkgtools | 22:50 |
| mgedmin | buildbot's SVN step is clever enough to try rm -rf && svn co when svn up fails (due to subversion's excessive fussyness) | 22:51 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5275: | 23:04 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Added URI unquoting in restive interface. | 23:04 |
| * ignas is importing Philipps data into release branch | 23:08 | |
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