IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2005-08-01

* tvon kicks stubs and fake tests00:00
povbot/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4418:00:46
povbot/svn/commits: Site-wide calendar in everyones overlay.00:46
povbot/svn/commits: We now have an event subscriber so that the site-wide calendar will by default be in a new persons overlay portlet.  This can be de-activated by the user in the overlay-selection view.00:46
povbot/svn/commits: At the moment you need to enable viewCalendar permissions for the authenticated group on the site-wide calendar to see the overlays in action.00:46
povbot/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4419:00:47
povbot/svn/commits: test tweaks for the extra relationship that comes with the calendar overlay work.00:47
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tvonbskahan: ping00:57
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povbot/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4420:01:22
povbot/svn/commits: docstring fix01:22
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povbot/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4421:10:10
povbot/svn/commits: Don't provide a link to add new events if the proper permission is not available.10:10
tvonah crap10:21
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povbot/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4422:12:04
povbot/svn/commits: Don't show the delete link if the viewer cannot delete the event.12:04
povbot/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4423:12:25
povbot/svn/commits: a fix for the last commit and an ftest12:25
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povbot/svn/commits: * srichter committed revision 4424:15:56
povbot/svn/commits: A high-level document describing the process of developing a new WfMC-based workflow.15:56
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bskahanwhat is the expansion of WfMC?16:28
th1aThe expansion of WfMC?16:29
tvonworkflow management coalition?16:29
th1aYes.16:29
bskahanthanks16:29
th1aFun guys to hang out with, I'm sure.16:29
th1aOK, let's get going here so I can get back in bed.16:30
tvonalright, I have some questions for the group16:30
th1aShoot.16:30
tvonthe ACL batching seems slow to me with a large number of groups and persons, I'd like folks to test it out16:32
tvonmy computer is not exactly in tip-top shape so I think it could just be firefox16:32
srichterth1a: I checked in the WfMC documentation (as you have probably seen); let me know if you want me to elaborate more on one topic or another16:32
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ignashi16:32
tvon2) the site-wide calendar... should this have authenticated or unauthenticated view permissions?16:32
th1asrichter: OK.16:33
th1atvon 1) How slow is slow?16:33
tvonth1a: not horrible, but it seems slower than other pages with batching (granted it's batching twice as much stuff)16:34
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gintastvon, can you try browsing to the page with, say, links?16:34
eldarmorning all16:35
tvonah, good call16:35
gintasfirefox really slows things down sometimes (rant rant)16:35
th1aeldar:  Good morning.16:35
algatvon: you can add calculatons of CPU time in your views16:35
gintasactually, that might be nice to have in all views16:35
algaprint it to stderr or display it in the footer16:36
th1asrichter:  Perhaps in our developer mode.16:36
tvonfor the coming developer mode, yeah16:36
alga>>> import time16:36
alga>>> time.clock()16:36
algathis is how we optimized the yearly view by a factor of tens16:37
algathough AFAIR we used a profiler16:37
algaas well16:37
tvonokay, all good to know16:38
algatvon: the Python doc on how to use the profiler is very good16:38
algaconcise, to the point16:38
tvonthanks16:38
gintasth1a, do you have plans about profiling & optimization of SchoolTool?16:38
th1aNo firm plans.16:39
th1aWorry about it when it becomes a problem.16:39
algagintas: what for? erchache's got 60000 thousand users, but he's got a sun server :-)16:39
tvonokay, next question16:40
tvonah, the "time" widget... do we really want this?  It IMO doesnt make much sense16:40
tvonyou either have a text field (now), or you have a field that has all (realistic) hours of the day in some N minute intervals (15-30), or you have 3 drop downs, one for hour, minute and am/pm16:41
algaI agree -- all the time widgets i've seen are worse than a text area16:41
tvonany mixture of textfield and drop-down would require javascript16:41
gintasdropdowns suck in this case16:41
tvonokay, great16:41
th1aOK, the consensus seems to be against me.16:41
tvonheh16:41
algas/area/input/16:41
bskahanI think the dropdowns are important16:41
bskahanfor non-technical users16:41
th1aSee, bskahan is on my side.16:42
tvonI can see an am/pm drop down, but I think doing it all in drop-downs makes it worse16:42
algawe might be biased16:42
ignaswell - a drop down iwth 24 choices is hell16:42
tvonyou either have to restrict people to set start times16:42
srichterI think in developer mode we could also have some cool profiling info16:42
ignasand the l10n issues with am/pm !16:42
tvonor have 3 drop downs16:43
th1aActually, do the text boxes respect the l10n settings now?16:43
ignastvon, how 3 dropdowns would help ?16:43
tvonignas: I'm saying they wouldnt16:43
ignasoh :)16:43
tvon[hour][minute] [am/pm]   or   [hour:minutes at 15 min intervals]16:44
gintas96 items?16:44
tvonor [text entry] [am/pm]  for those with 12h preference16:44
srichterI think you should have different time widgets based on locale16:44
alga[300 minutes after sunrise]16:44
th1aRight now, if you've chosen the am/pm preference, can you use that when you're entering times?16:45
ignaswell - a text input with an example (that might be differentdepending on whether you are 24h or am/pm guy)16:45
ignasand different validation code ni both cases ...16:45
algath1a: I think you can't16:45
th1aI didn't think so.16:46
ignasmaybe even making 13:00 ni am/pm mode just plain invalid16:46
th1aI think proper handling of am/pm entry is essential.16:46
th1aI'd settle for that.16:46
tvonam/pm makes sense to me16:46
algaI've got an idea16:46
tvonokay16:46
ignasand of course a differen widget for timedelta :)16:46
alga[text:input] and javascript buttons to increase/decrease hours and minutes!16:47
algalike palm does16:47
gintassounds good to me16:47
tvonI'm all for javascript trickery.. can be done in a non-essential way too16:48
gintasit degrades nicely too when JS is not available16:48
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tvonokay, so the solution for now is [text] [am/pm]16:48
ignasalga, +116:48
bska|mobilesorry about that, network went down16:48
* bska|mobile nods16:48
bska|mobileI like that16:48
bska|mobileyou can do [Text] where the range includes am/pm16:49
ignastvon, and what about non am/pm locale ? would we allow 13:00 in am/pm mode by just falling back ? what would 1:00 without am/pm in am/pm locale mean ?16:49
tvonlater on we'll add a NL parser for "15 minutes after the 'Lunch with Jane' event"16:49
algabska: it's because you're american :)16:49
tvonignas: good points16:49
bska|mobilealga: probably true16:49
ignastvon, yep, yet they should be left out to be discussed after the meeting16:50
th1aI think having am/pm as a drop down is better than having people type it after the time.16:50
ignasmeeting for identifying not solving ;)16:50
th1aignas:  Good point.16:50
tvonalright16:50
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bska|mobilea single dropdown with the 24 hour range will work in any locale16:50
algabut it's a UI nightmare16:51
tvonbska|mobile: the problem with that is the times are restricted16:51
tvoneg, if you have an event at 12:0516:51
ignasbska|mobile, and typing 17:00 becomes a pain in the arse, because you must click 1 for 6-7 times ...16:51
ignasand type 00 after that ...16:51
* bska|mobile nods16:51
tvonhrm... we *could* have just a text field, but add a text and a drop-down if javascript is avail16:52
tvonnot something I want to do by tomorrow though16:52
ignasok16:52
ignasnext16:52
ignas:)16:52
th1aMoving along...16:52
tvonok, we'll discuss that more after the meeting16:52
tvonthe site-wide calendar16:52
tvonpublic to anon or only to authenticated by default?16:52
th1aIs that SchoolTool only or also in SchoolBell?16:53
tvoncan be either or both16:53
tvon(it's coded in each separately)16:53
th1aCan it be set via the regular ACL view?16:53
algaI think the schoolwide calendar is like a notice board16:54
algapublic to read16:54
tvonth1a: after it's running, yes16:54
algabulletin board16:54
gintasI tend to agree with alga16:54
tvonspeaking of which, I was thinking it would be niceif the front page had a split view of the site calendar and the authenticated users calendar16:55
tvonwell, forget that for now16:55
th1aIt should be public by default.16:55
bska|mobiletvon: you mean the page immediately after login?16:55
tvonbska|mobile: nm, since site calendar is overlayed anyways16:56
ignasalga, schootool lwide - yes, yet SB wide calendar might be kept private ...16:56
algaignas: if you want to keep something private, you don't need an app-wide calendar16:56
algajust use a special group16:56
tvonthis is true, and it can always be made private after setup16:57
th1aJust making it public is fine for now.16:57
tvonokay16:57
tvonnext Q16:57
tvonOn a related note, can the perms be done in zcml?  I'm currently doing it in *Application.__init__() after self.calendar is created16:58
algalocal grants are in ZODB16:58
algacan't be done in ZCML16:58
tvonokay16:58
algayou might create a subclass of calendar16:58
algawith different permissions16:58
tvonthats a thought16:59
algabut that way ACL would not be able to make it public later16:59
tvonah16:59
tvonokay16:59
algaerr, private later16:59
tvonokay, I'll just do it in the constructor16:59
algabut you could modify ZCML :-)16:59
tvonheh, sweet17:00
tvonokay...17:00
* tvon checks notes17:00
th1aQuite frankly, whatever gets it running and public the most quickly (while still being halfway sane) is best.17:00
tvonI have an after-meeting question for z3 TALES expression wizards17:01
tvonotherwise...17:01
gintasdo we intend to land these things we've been discussing in SB 1.2 / ST 0.11?17:01
SteveAif it takes wizardry, don't do it in TALES17:01
tvonI think thats it...17:01
th1agintas:  Well, they were supposed to be there.17:02
bska|mobilegintas: I think the time widget just got punted17:02
th1aWe're going to have to impose a hard deadline here.17:02
tvongintas: the site-wide will be done tonight... the locale issues with time widget are yet to be determined17:02
gintasas far as I understand, I'm supposed to create the release branch today?17:03
th1aWell, we generally do that on Tuesday.17:03
gintasok17:03
algaI strongly think that time widget need a lot of discussion, new contract, etc17:04
th1aOK.17:04
algaand does not have to be rushed17:04
tvonokay17:04
th1aThen I'd like more reminders to use 24 hour time next to the relevant text boxes.17:04
algaafter all, we're behind schedule anyway17:04
th1aThat's a lot less common in the US than Europe.17:04
tvonth1a: okay17:05
gintasI'd like the important bugs to be fixed till tomorrow17:05
th1agintas:  are you still planning on taking a crack at a Windows installer?17:05
gintasth1a, yeah17:06
gintasshould be easy17:06
th1aGood.17:06
gintasI did one for the wxWidgets client17:06
th1aTo the bug tracker, Batman!17:06
th1aIs 315 fixed (broken titles)?17:07
tvonno, I'll fix the tt views now17:08
th1aYou understand the problem now, right?17:08
* tvon checks tomake sure17:09
tvonthe SchoolBell -> SchoolTool issue is fixed, the stray <title> in some titles is not17:09
tvonand yes I understand it, it's a matter of updating the macros in those pages to the new setup17:09
th1aWhat about 318?  It is a date/datetime TypeError.17:10
algatvon: why did this need arise?17:10
bska|mobileth1a: I'll do 31817:10
th1aThanks.17:10
bska|mobileI meant to do it last week17:10
tvonalga: It came out of putting the application name in the page title17:11
tvonI was about to say though...17:11
bska|mobilehttp://issues.schooltool.org/issue284 is fixed now, right?17:11
tvonI can just rever the whole thing... I like having the app.title in the page title for consistancy, but it requires changing any title macros we encounter (eg, things under ++etc++site if we want it to look nice)17:12
algabska|mobile: no, but there's a command line option to restore the manager:schooltool user17:12
th1aI don't think it is necessary to have the app name in the title.17:12
tvonas it is, every z3 page template assumes it has complete control over <title></title>..17:12
tvonth1a: okay, I'll pull it out17:12
tvonI think it's nice but it has not been worth the trouble so far17:13
bska|mobileth1a: http://issues.schooltool.org/issue273 can you check that?  it should be fixed17:13
th1aMy wife is using my Mac at the moment.17:14
th1aBut I'll check.17:14
tvonIs there any nice way to check for permissions on an object without putting custom methods into every view?17:15
tvonI fooled with a tales expression along the lines of "object/permissions:principal_id/permission_str", but I suspect that might be abusive17:16
tvoneg, object/permission:principal_id would return a class that could be queried for specific permissions17:17
bska|mobilealga: I was thinking the command line option was enough, but after thinking about it longer I guess not (since the 'schooltool administrator' may be different from the 'server administrator')17:17
tvon<div tal:define="pid request/principal/id" tal:condition="event/permissions:pid/schoolbell.editEvent"/>17:18
bska|mobilehttp://issues.schooltool.org/issue272 I can't recreate17:18
algabska|mobile: manager is the server admin account17:19
algaschool administrator does not need zope.Manage17:19
bska|mobilethe initial user has zope.Manager17:20
algayes, so that there is at least someone who can go to ++etc++site/default/RootErrorService etc17:20
* bska|mobile nods17:21
gintasth1a, a release candidate should be released tomorrow after branching, right?17:23
th1aYes.17:24
gintasdoes jinty have this documented anywhere?17:24
th1aI'll be getting on an airplane, so the Mac version will be a few days late.17:24
th1aHm... good question.17:24
gintasit's not that hard I guess17:25
tvonIIRC he sent a mail out to the list about the process17:25
algawe have a mac here...17:25
gintasright, I'll have a look17:25
th1aIt seems like I 've seen it somewhere.17:25
th1aWell, if you take a look at the last Mac package I created, you can probably see what I did.17:25
gintasbut basically all I have to do is create some packages and post a notice on the Plone schooltool.org site?17:26
bska|mobileis http://issues.schooltool.org/issue320 a showstopper?17:26
th1aI know a little more about creating proper Mac packages now, actually, so I intend to give that a shot this week.17:26
th1aAlthough I think I say that for each release.17:26
tvonbska|mobile: probably a problem with pythonpath being appended instead of prepended in *-server.py ?17:28
tvonerm, maybe not, looks like it sticks it in the beginning17:29
th1aI don't think 320 is a showstopper for the release.17:30
bska|mobileok17:30
gintasth1a, I'll have a closer look at 320 and see if there's an easy way to circumvent the problem17:30
bska|mobileare we still packaging zope for the release?17:31
th1agintas:  Thanks.17:31
algajinty's 1st solution is correct IMO17:31
bska|mobileor just depending on 3.117:31
th1aThis doesn't seem like a good time to change that kind of thing around.17:31
algawe do need to include securitypolicy in site17:31
th1aWhat's POV's new street address/phone #?17:32
gintasSierakausko st. 30A-1717:32
gintas(street, not station ;)17:32
algawe use mobile phones17:33
algawe should probably mail you a summary of our contacts17:33
algath1a: will you have a GSM phone?17:34
algath1a: where are you staying?17:34
th1aYes.17:34
th1aWe're staying in an apartment at Mindaugo 14b.17:36
gintasgood, that's within walking distance of our office17:37
th1aCool.17:37
algahave you heard of www.maps.lt yet?  quite handy17:37
th1aalga: thanks.17:38
algado you have a GPS?17:39
th1aNo GPS.17:39
bska|mobileI have to run out, I'll look at that iCal bug this afternoon.17:39
bska|mobileanything else for the meeting?17:39
th1aThat appears to be it.17:40
* th1a bangs the virtual gavel.17:40
th1aSteveA:  Are you and Mark still in Brazil?17:47
povbot/svn/commits: * bskahan committed revision 4425:17:49
povbot/svn/commits: added i18n:translate to get rid of warnings.17:49
SteveAth1a: yes17:51
th1aDo you know when he is flying back?17:52
SteveAth1a: mark will be here for 2 more weeks, i think17:52
th1aOK.17:52
th1aYou're going back to Vilnius soon though, right?17:53
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povbot/svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4426:18:18
povbot/svn/commits: Typos.18:18
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bskahanalga: do you know of any reason why the Until date in a recurrence rule needs to be a datetime instead of a date?20:17
ignaswell - if event is due 00:10 UTC and you are in -2 TZ you might get in trouble by comparing just date i guess ...20:20
ignasjust a guess ...20:20
ignasbtw - has anyone tested reswource booking clash detection vs all day events ?20:21
ignasand some exotic TZs20:21
bskahanI haven't worked on allday events very much, tvon may have tested them in depth20:22
algabskahan: I think until has to be a date...20:29
algaduh, it is a date20:31
algaschoolbell.calendar.interfaces.IRecurrenceRule20:31
bskahanalga: thanks20:32
povbot/svn/commits: * bskahan committed revision 4427:20:37
povbot/svn/commits: force RecurrenceRule.until to be a Date if a client passes a datetime.  Should fix http://issues.schooltool.org/issue31820:37
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povbot/svn/commits: * bskahan committed revision 4428:20:53
povbot/svn/commits: consistent fix for weekly recurrence and test20:53
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povbot/svn/commits: * bskahan committed revision 4429:21:02
povbot/svn/commits: oops21:02
algabskahan: have you noticed the increase in the speed of SVN?21:04
bskahanalga: yes, on commits21:04
algawe're now on 512 Mbit line since start of July21:04
bskahanvery nice21:04
algaer21:04
algaKbit21:04
* bskahan nods21:04
algaand we had 192 Kbit before21:05
bskahanits noticable21:05
algawhich was kind of outdated, because cheap broadband reached Lithuania21:05
algaand all of us had faster internet at home than at work ;-)21:06
ignasyep :) 100 Mbit here21:11
ignasno outside IP though :(21:11
algaliving on campus does not count ;-\21:11
bskahanheh21:17
* bskahan just downgraded21:17
bskahanbut I get VoIP now21:17
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tvonhaving a permission grant in SchoolBellApplication.__init__() is a complete unit testing nightmare21:54
ignasbye21:54
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algatvon: right, probably a bad idea22:12
algatvon: put it to an event subscriber22:12
tvonexcellent22:12
algaObjectAddedEvent22:12
tvonalga: thanks22:13
algano prob22:13
tvonevents are very nice22:13
algayou'll probably want to send the event manually in the app setup22:13
algafor the standalone server22:13
tvonokay22:13
* tvon scurries off to find food22:22
algabon app├ętit22:28
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* tvon wonders if they have waffle fries in Lithuania22:41
Aisteif it is what I think it is then we do :)22:49
tvonah, good, wouldn't want you to miss out :)22:49
AisteI do not eat them though22:49
Aistebad for you :)22:49
tvonhurts so good22:50
Aisteheh22:50
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