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| mgedmin | heh, great lesson about REST: http://bitworking.org/news/I_m_sorry__I_can_t_kiss_it_and_make_it_better_ | 00:45 |
|---|---|---|
| mgedmin | social calendaring app (free, RSS, iCal): http://upcoming.org/ | 00:53 |
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| * mgedmin sees "New Course" right next under "New group", and declares a holy war on inconsistent capitalization | 13:58 | |
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| mgedmin | SchoolBell's view_macros.pt still contains this bit: | 14:30 |
| mgedmin | XXX Preferences view is not implemented yet | 14:30 |
| mgedmin | is it true? | 14:30 |
| mgedmin | I think not | 14:30 |
| bskahan | no | 14:31 |
| mgedmin | there was a link to 'My preferences' that didn't work | 14:32 |
| mgedmin | I disabled it and added an XXX | 14:32 |
| mgedmin | because at that time there was no preferences view in svn | 14:32 |
| mgedmin | now it would be time to either reenable that link | 14:32 |
| mgedmin | or remove it altogether | 14:32 |
| bskahan | do we want a link to preferences in places other than on the person? | 14:33 |
| bskahan | that link is in the red bar on the right side, which seems like a logical place | 14:33 |
| mgedmin | dunno | 14:33 |
| bskahan | I'll take out the link for now | 14:34 |
| mgedmin | fine by me | 14:34 |
| * mgedmin does svn up and gets svn: Unknown hostname 'svn.zope.org' | 14:34 | |
| mgedmin | huh? | 14:35 |
| bskahan | not getting that here | 14:36 |
| mgedmin | btw the same disabled & XXXed link is in schooltool's view_macros.pt | 14:37 |
| mgedmin | regarding capitalization, both view_macros-es have a person-detail macro | 14:37 |
| mgedmin | with labels like "Primary email", "Secondary phone", and, suddenly and unexpectedly, "Mailing Address" | 14:38 |
| mgedmin | can you please choose one capitalization style and stick to it? | 14:38 |
| mgedmin | when we started schoolbell, we chose "Capitalizing just the first word", but I'm all for switching to "Capitalizing Every Significant Word" if that looks better | 14:39 |
| bskahan | lets stick to 'just the first word'. I'll fix that page | 14:44 |
| bskahan | unless you allready got it with the flaming sword of capitalization consistency | 14:45 |
| mgedmin | nooooooooo | 14:46 |
| mgedmin | I just commited a whole bunch of changes to This Style of Capitalization | 14:46 |
| bskahan | heh | 14:46 |
| bskahan | ok | 14:46 |
| bskahan | nm | 14:46 |
| bskahan | ignore I said that ... | 14:46 |
| bskahan | ;) | 14:46 |
| mgedmin | what do you all think about making terms first-level objects? | 14:55 |
| mgedmin | that would entail removing ISchoolToolApplication.terms and just using app['terms'] as another container of objects, like resources | 14:56 |
| mgedmin | in the UI you would have Persons, Groups, Resources, Terms | 14:56 |
| mgedmin | TermService would be renamed to TermContainer (which it is) | 14:56 |
| mgedmin | we might also rename TermCalendar to just Term | 14:57 |
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| bskahan | that sounds more consistent, I'm probably going to do the same thing with Sections and Courses as well | 14:58 |
| mgedmin | should we use zope.View in ST's browser/configure.zcml? | 15:42 |
| * mgedmin pings alga | 15:42 | |
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| bskahan | mgedmin: did you mean where should we use zope.View vs schoolbell.view? | 17:31 |
| mgedmin | yes | 17:51 |
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| mgedmin | ah, the difference is that schoolbell.view is not granted to anonymous users, as opposed to zope.View | 17:59 |
| * mgedmin looks around | 18:01 | |
| ignas | hello | 18:01 |
| th1a | Ah. Good morning all. | 18:01 |
| bskahan | hello | 18:01 |
| ignas | what's on the agenda ? | 18:01 |
| th1a | I was just following the debate on the debian-edu list about Debian vs. Ubuntu. | 18:01 |
| th1a | Got caught up in it. | 18:02 |
| th1a | Agenda: | 18:02 |
| th1a | Quick report on my trip to Spain. | 18:02 |
| th1a | Updates: Are we on schedule for a release candidate next Tuesday? | 18:02 |
| th1a | Resolving any outstanding issues around course and section design. | 18:03 |
| th1a | OK... I'll be sending an email out about the Free Software Congress to the list, but I'll mention a few things. | 18:03 |
| th1a | I did get to spend a morning meeting with administrators and developers from the education department of the Valencian community. | 18:04 |
| th1a | They currently use a bunch of FoxPro databases installed at all their schools. | 18:04 |
| th1a | We can download those databases from the web. | 18:05 |
| th1a | And they'll send us other documentation about their current requirements and system. | 18:05 |
| th1a | The whole region is shifting to free software, they've got their own localized distro, etc. | 18:05 |
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| th1a | So it would make sense for them to migrate over time to a free system for school administration. | 18:06 |
| th1a | It is a good situation because they've got an aging but stable system in place. | 18:06 |
| th1a | So they can wait. | 18:06 |
| th1a | They oversee a ton of schools, so this would be a big, long term project. | 18:07 |
| th1a | Hopefully I'll be invited back next year to show them what we've got. | 18:07 |
| gintas | cool | 18:07 |
| bskahan | are the schools system's independent or are they communicating centrally in some way? | 18:08 |
| th1a | The politicians were enthusiastic. The developers were friendly but a little quizzical. | 18:08 |
| th1a | They are now working on getting them to communicate, but at this point it is limited. | 18:08 |
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| bskahan | how convenient | 18:09 |
| th1a | OK, I'll write more in an email. | 18:09 |
| th1a | Oh, one more thing. | 18:10 |
| th1a | Mark seems reasonably happy with our progress. | 18:10 |
| th1a | Moreso than in November. | 18:10 |
| th1a | He gave me the thumbs up to have srichter do some paid work on SchoolTool. | 18:11 |
| th1a | Stephan and I have been discussing that over the past few months. | 18:11 |
| th1a | Hopefully we'll settle the details this week. | 18:11 |
| th1a | Also, we're going to pay ReportLab to make a student timetable report for us. | 18:12 |
| alga | whoa :-) | 18:12 |
| th1a | They've already got a nice timetable widget written for their conference system, so it will be cheap and quick. | 18:12 |
| th1a | Otherwise, we'll be doing the ReportLab stuff ourselves. | 18:13 |
| th1a | It is just a low hanging report-fruit. | 18:13 |
| th1a | alga: whoa-which? | 18:13 |
| alga | both | 18:14 |
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| th1a | I've had a few things cooking in secret :-) | 18:15 |
| th1a | OK. How are things coming in Vilnius? | 18:15 |
| * mgedmin nudges alga | 18:16 | |
| th1a | Jennifer and I have officially rented an apartment in Vilnius for the month of August, so look out! | 18:16 |
| tvon|x31 | heh | 18:16 |
| *** tvon|x31 is now known as tvon | 18:17 | |
| alga | ok... | 18:17 |
| alga | the progress was slower than I expected | 18:17 |
| alga | for various reasons we could not do as much st work as we would like | 18:18 |
| alga | also, porting the timetabling code is taking more than I expected | 18:18 |
| alga | also, I get to do some work which was not planned -- making ST app use its own different people, groups, resources | 18:20 |
| alga | (which have timetables in addition to what SB objects have) | 18:20 |
| alga | Gintas went to a collegiate programming contest last week :-) | 18:20 |
| th1a | How'd it go? | 18:21 |
| alga | his team took 10th place out of ~30 | 18:21 |
| th1a | Send me the email addresses of teams 1-9 ;-) | 18:21 |
| tvon | hehe | 18:21 |
| gintas | ah, you have to be a sponsor ;) | 18:22 |
| th1a | I see. Very clever. | 18:22 |
| alga | Basically, I'm not at all confident of our progress | 18:23 |
| th1a | Is everyone going to be able to focus on SchoolTool this week? | 18:23 |
| alga | I would estimate there is a 50% chance we will have our part of contract done till next tuesday | 18:24 |
| alga | mostly | 18:24 |
| alga | Marius needs one tricky task to do outside of ST work | 18:24 |
| alga | otherwise, we're 100% on ST | 18:25 |
| th1a | jinty: ayt? | 18:25 |
| jinty | yep | 18:25 |
| th1a | If POV is a bit late can we push back the release candidate a few days? | 18:25 |
| th1a | What would you suggest. | 18:26 |
| th1a | The 31st is a hard deadline for the final release. | 18:26 |
| jinty | I don't think it's a problem. | 18:27 |
| alga | What about Etria though? | 18:28 |
| jinty | but the release is called 'timed' for a reason | 18:28 |
| bskahan | We'll finish by the 17th | 18:28 |
| tvon | We'll be okay for next week | 18:28 |
| th1a | What else do you guys need to finish? | 18:29 |
| bskahan | changing the Sections/Courses as discussed on the mailing list | 18:29 |
| tvon | csv importing and rest for preferences | 18:29 |
| jinty | my personal preference is releasing on time and reducing features... | 18:29 |
| bskahan | which makes one of my outstanding tasks easier - REST interface for courses/sections | 18:30 |
| th1a | jinty: POV's work isn't very feature-driven. It is sorta one big lump. | 18:30 |
| th1a | Perhaps they can think of bits to split off if necessary. | 18:30 |
| bskahan | csv upload of courses/sections | 18:31 |
| bskahan | I didn't get as much done as planned last week | 18:31 |
| bskahan | quit smoking, killed my productivity (along with my civility, humanity, and love for life) | 18:32 |
| th1a | Ah. | 18:32 |
| tvon | heh | 18:32 |
| gintas | great! | 18:32 |
| th1a | bskahan: Quit smoking _after_ you meet our deadlines. | 18:32 |
| gintas | (not the productivity part though) | 18:32 |
| tvon | haha | 18:32 |
| bskahan | gintas: in a few years ... | 18:32 |
| bskahan | th1a: heh, I allready decided that and went to get a pack this morning | 18:33 |
| th1a | I'm a bad influence. | 18:33 |
| th1a | I'm killing my developers. | 18:33 |
| tvon | hehe | 18:33 |
| gintas | boo | 18:33 |
| bskahan | but, either way, I think we're ok for the 17th | 18:33 |
| th1a | Good. | 18:34 |
| gintas | bskahan, why did you mention that CSV upload? | 18:34 |
| th1a | POV had a tougher schedule this time. | 18:34 |
| bskahan | gintas: listing things we haven't finished | 18:34 |
| bskahan | th1a: yeah, I had really hoped to be finished by now, but other work has kept Tom busy | 18:34 |
| alga | but please... | 18:35 |
| alga | could you try to do what you do a bit higher quality?.. | 18:35 |
| * bskahan nods | 18:35 | |
| alga | it's so disconcerting to see stuff like those unwritten tests | 18:36 |
| alga | and broken couses/sections | 18:36 |
| alga | what is their status btw? | 18:36 |
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| alga | are they in progress, or done? | 18:36 |
| th1a | It seems like there is agreement about what is to be done, right? | 18:37 |
| bskahan | I'm redoing them today to not subclass Groups, giving them their own Containers | 18:37 |
| alga | th1a: I think so | 18:37 |
| bskahan | my only question is about the URISection | 18:37 |
| alga | bskahan: it can be as it is | 18:37 |
| bskahan | alga: I just want to make sure I know what needs to be done to avoid problems | 18:38 |
| bskahan | with that, is it just a question of documenting the issue, or is there something that should be checked on the relationship creation? | 18:39 |
| mgedmin | what would you check? | 18:40 |
| alga | One more thing | 18:41 |
| gintas | bskahan, by the way, are you building that CSV import on the form that has been implemented already? | 18:41 |
| alga | re learning and membership | 18:41 |
| bskahan | I think its just something that needs to tbe documented, its the first case of a Role being used in multiple relationships | 18:41 |
| alga | can we drop learning, and just use membership? | 18:41 |
| alga | students are members of a section | 18:41 |
| bskahan | gintas: I'm not sure yet | 18:41 |
| alga | teacher is an instructor of a section | 18:41 |
| th1a | I think alga's suggestion would be fine. | 18:42 |
| bskahan | alga: ok | 18:42 |
| th1a | Does that make it simpler to keep sections as subclasses of groups? | 18:42 |
| bskahan | yes | 18:42 |
| alga | but in a separate container | 18:43 |
| alga | or maybe not... | 18:44 |
| mgedmin | I would find a separate container clearer | 18:44 |
| bskahan | I think putting things in seperate containers is simpler | 18:44 |
| mgedmin | or maybe not... | 18:44 |
| bskahan | seperate container gets a cleaner URI, simple UI, and simpler REST interface | 18:45 |
| th1a | I think separate containers is the way to go. | 18:45 |
| th1a | I don't want sections mixed in with regular groups in the default views. | 18:46 |
| gintas | me neither | 18:46 |
| gintas | you can delete those special containers easily as it is | 18:47 |
| ignas | using same containers can obcure RESTive views too ... | 18:47 |
| bskahan | they won't be, in either case. But its less work to seperate them in the UI if they're in seperate containers | 18:47 |
| bskahan | what are the benefits of keeping a small number of containers? | 18:48 |
| th1a | It will get confusing at a certain point. | 18:49 |
| bskahan | i don't really love app/courses and app/sections since I feel like it should be app/mycourse/sections but since sections apply to multiple courses ... | 18:51 |
| gintas | another small question | 18:52 |
| th1a | Yeah, we've got to use app/sections | 18:52 |
| gintas | I'm not sure who wrote SectionView, but why do we need getters in that class? | 18:52 |
| bskahan | gintas: the title property is going away entirely | 18:53 |
| bskahan | in favor of the regular title attribute | 18:53 |
| gintas | I'm talking about getInstructors/getLearners/getCourses | 18:53 |
| th1a | bskahan: What's the title going to be? | 18:54 |
| gintas | same for getSections in CourseView | 18:54 |
| bskahan | gintas: because that I looked at GroupView from schoolbell and it had getMembers, iirc | 18:54 |
| jinty | I hate to bring this up again. But what about old schooltool databases? Is there some working upgrade path? | 18:55 |
| alga | jinty: not worth the effort, imo | 18:55 |
| gintas | bskahan, it had a filter() call inside so we put it into a method | 18:55 |
| th1a | Should be generations support from SchoolBell, right? | 18:55 |
| gintas | the ones you wrote are trivial and better done in tal as "context/foo/bar" | 18:56 |
| alga | th1a: yes, but not upgrading from st 0.9 to zope 3 | 18:56 |
| bskahan | gintas: /me nods | 18:56 |
| jinty | alga: I agree | 18:56 |
| th1a | Can one upgrade from ST 0.9 to SB 1.0? | 18:56 |
| mgedmin | the ones in GroupView actually *do* something, not just pass an unchanged value from self.context | 18:57 |
| bskahan | th1a: by running a script maybe? | 18:57 |
| th1a | bskahan: Using whatever we've got to go from SB 0.9 to SB 1.0. | 18:57 |
| alga | get *real* people | 18:58 |
| alga | ST and SB are different things | 18:58 |
| th1a | alga: OK. | 18:58 |
| th1a | Well, I feel quite certain that there are no real SchoolTool 0.9 users. | 18:58 |
| jinty | It was a good idea to steer people to schoolbell | 18:59 |
| th1a | Yeah. I should have been more emphatic about it on the website. | 18:59 |
| th1a | OK. That's our hour. | 19:00 |
| th1a | Anything else pressing? | 19:00 |
| th1a | OK. Let's get this together for next Tuesday. | 19:02 |
| * th1a bangs the virtual gavel. | 19:02 | |
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| mgedmin | alga, watch: | 19:45 |
| mgedmin | /home/mg/src/schooltool/src/schooltool/tests/test_timetable.py: WARNING: TestTimetableException not in test suite | 19:45 |
| mgedmin | /home/mg/src/schooltool/src/schooltool/tests/test_timetable.py: WARNING: TestExceptionalTTCalendarEvent not in test suite | 19:45 |
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| bskahan | at what point (time of the RC maybe) do we want to update rosetta for translations? | 20:24 |
| bskahan | I was poking around and noticed the rosetta page is still pointing to ST 0.9 UI branch | 20:25 |
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| * jinty can't find schooltool on rosetta, just schoolbell. | 20:38 | |
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| th1a | Can we update the translations for SchoolBell now? | 20:49 |
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| bskahan | th1a: I think we should update the page now, but since we're changing UI string on a daily basis, it probably makes sense to put a note on the rosetta page that we have new branches coming | 21:21 |
| th1a | OK. | 21:21 |
| bskahan | actually starting translations now might be frustrating to translators when tomorrow we change 10 strings | 21:21 |
| th1a | OK. If things are still changing daily we should just wait a week. | 21:22 |
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| th1a | Hi Jeff! | 21:23 |
| jelkner | hi | 21:24 |
| th1a | How was Australia? | 21:24 |
| jelkner | thla: who is this? | 21:24 |
| th1a | Tom Hoffman | 21:24 |
| jelkner | thla: great, Tom | 21:24 |
| bskahan | unidentifiable nicknames .... | 21:24 |
| jelkner | I was hoping to talk to you | 21:24 |
| jelkner | Australia was wonderful | 21:25 |
| th1a | I was just starting an email for the K12OSN list about my trip to the Free Software Congress in Spain last week. | 21:25 |
| th1a | That was pretty cool, too. | 21:25 |
| jelkner | awesome | 21:25 |
| th1a | So what's up? | 21:25 |
| jelkner | work on CanDo has been proceeding well | 21:26 |
| th1a | Ah. Good. | 21:26 |
| jelkner | and we are beginning to wrap our heads around zope3 | 21:26 |
| th1a | Great. What does CanDo do at this point? | 21:26 |
| jelkner | well, the zope 2 version permits teachers to track competencies and to post curriculum and students to post portfolios | 21:27 |
| jelkner | we have a teacher who is using it heavily and likes it a lot | 21:28 |
| jelkner | we want to get to the point soon where the zope 3 version can do everything the zope 2 version can | 21:28 |
| bskahan | jelkner: have you started on a Z3 version? | 21:29 |
| th1a | Can I download the Zope 2 version? | 21:29 |
| jelkner | and we want to be sure that we are not doing anything that would make it difficult to integrate with school tool | 21:29 |
| jelkner | yes | 21:29 |
| jelkner | cando.sf.net | 21:29 |
| jelkner | we have moved away from using an external database | 21:29 |
| jelkner | we plan to keep data in the ZODB | 21:30 |
| jelkner | that's what the zope 2 version does | 21:30 |
| th1a | Excellent. | 21:30 |
| th1a | Do I need Plone for that? | 21:31 |
| jelkner | no | 21:31 |
| jelkner | it is a bit ugly at present, but usable | 21:31 |
| jelkner | ;-) | 21:31 |
| th1a | OK. Cool. | 21:31 |
| jelkner | there are no dependencies aside from the basic zope install | 21:32 |
| jelkner | tom, you are in baltimore, yes? | 21:32 |
| th1a | tvon and bskahan are. | 21:32 |
| th1a | I'm in Providence. | 21:32 |
| jelkner | here is why i'm asking... | 21:33 |
| jelkner | the NECC (national educational computing conference) will be in Philadelphia from June 27 to 30 | 21:34 |
| th1a | I'll be there. | 21:34 |
| bskahan | I'll be in New Zealand then | 21:34 |
| jelkner | we will be running the "Free Software Center" | 21:34 |
| th1a | Right. | 21:35 |
| jelkner | and I wanted to provide info about school tool | 21:35 |
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| th1a | Can I do a demo? | 21:35 |
| jelkner | perhaps a demo of schoolbell? | 21:35 |
| jelkner | you bet! | 21:35 |
| th1a | jinx! buy me a coke. | 21:35 |
| FarcePest | jinx? what's next, swirlies? | 21:35 |
| th1a | Virtual swirlies. | 21:36 |
| jelkner | can you send me a quick email at jelkner@divmod.com with your email, snail mail, and phone? | 21:36 |
| th1a | OK. | 21:36 |
| jelkner | great! | 21:36 |
| jelkner | well, back to reading the "Web Component Development with Zope 3" book | 21:37 |
| jelkner | i'll email you as soon as you send me the info | 21:37 |
| jelkner | cya | 21:37 |
| th1a | Where'd you get that? | 21:37 |
| jelkner | amazon | 21:37 |
| jelkner | it is great | 21:37 |
| th1a | Why hasn't mine arrived? | 21:38 |
| jelkner | it was written in german | 21:38 |
| jelkner | and the editing of the translation is not good | 21:38 |
| jelkner | but the presentation is crystal clear | 21:38 |
| jelkner | mine only arrived last thursday | 21:38 |
| th1a | Anyhow. I do have a couple other obligations at NECC. | 21:39 |
| th1a | I'm not precisely sure what they are. I guess I need to figure that out. | 21:39 |
| jelkner | no problem, we will be there at the Free Software Center | 21:39 |
| th1a | Huh... Amazon things I've gotten my copy as well. | 21:39 |
| jelkner | you can stop by whenever you have time | 21:40 |
| th1a | You do have scheduled demos as well, though, right? | 21:40 |
| jelkner | we haven't gotten that far yet | 21:40 |
| th1a | If you do, put me down for one. | 21:40 |
| jelkner | i'll put up a wiki over the next few days so we can organize that | 21:40 |
| th1a | OK. | 21:41 |
| jelkner | thla: i got your email. let me follow up with you that way so that i can cc some of the other folks involved. | 21:42 |
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| th1a | I think someone stole the Zope 3 book off my porch last week. | 21:50 |
| bskahan | its a very hot item | 21:50 |
| bskahan | like ipods on the subway | 21:50 |
| th1a | Did you see Paris Hilton on Entertainment Tonight carrying a Zope 3 book? | 21:51 |
| th1a | They've been going like hotcakes ever since. | 21:51 |
| bskahan | no, I'm sure I would have remembered seeing paris hilton carrying a book | 21:51 |
| tvon | I think she could be carrying a unicorn and I wouldnt see it | 21:52 |
| tvon | I'm sure thats just me though | 21:52 |
| FarcePest | if you search google for paris hilton zope, you get a number of hits at cbs4boston.com, which is apparently zope-driven | 21:53 |
| th1a | Correct. | 21:53 |
| FarcePest | actually there are several tv stations that come up | 21:54 |
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| th1a | OK... time to try to upgrade to Tiger. | 23:18 |
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