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| mgedmin | hm, I can't create notes | 12:02 |
|---|---|---|
| mgedmin | Unauthorized: (<schoolbell.app.notes.Notes object at 0xb1bccd2c>, 'add', 'schoolbell.create') | 12:04 |
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| th1a | Good lord, what a load of SchoolTool-related email. | 17:07 |
| bskahan | I had to break down and add filters for st-dev and st-issues this morning | 17:09 |
| bskahan | ;) | 17:09 |
| bskahan | a good thing(tm) | 17:09 |
| th1a | I think it is easier to run an open source project when you don't have users. | 17:10 |
| bskahan | we have one | 17:10 |
| th1a | I noticed. | 17:12 |
| * mgedmin bursts out in laughter | 17:12 | |
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| th1a | Here's a sequence for our upcoming presentations which illustrates how ST's REST api works. It is exported here as a Quicktime, which none of you may be able to use... http://tuttlesvc.teacherhosting.com/pictures/ETech2005.mov | 17:17 |
| th1a | You might want to download the link before trying to view it. | 17:18 |
| bskahan | no luck | 17:20 |
| bskahan | totem managed to thumbnail it, but neither xine or gstreamer will play it | 17:20 |
| mgedmin | ETA: 17 minutes and increasing... | 17:21 |
| bskahan | th1a's laptop got #schooltool'd | 17:22 |
| th1a | I'll have to make a pdf version. | 17:23 |
| ignas | 31% [==========> ] 2,260,464 7.36K/s ETA 09:18 | 17:24 |
| bskahan | for all day events | 17:26 |
| bskahan | would making a boolean allday attribute on ICalendarEvent and setting duration to 0 be acceptable? | 17:27 |
| bskahan | vs. splitting the datetimes into seperate date/time objects | 17:27 |
| bskahan | where allday events only have datestart without a timestart | 17:28 |
| mgedmin | what about all-day events that have nonzero duration? | 17:31 |
| mgedmin | iCalendar allows them | 17:31 |
| mgedmin | allday = property(lambda self: not isinstance(self.dtstart, datetime.datetime)) ? | 17:32 |
| bskahan | your right, doesn't handle multiple day, allday events | 17:32 |
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| bskahan | looking at event add form. Would leaving the time empty be sufficient for creating allday events? | 17:41 |
| bskahan | or does it need to be more explicit | 17:41 |
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| bskahan | I'm leaning towards more explicit (like a checkbox that makes the time field insensitive) | 17:42 |
| mgedmin | I like the checkbox | 17:46 |
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| tvon | Hello all | 17:58 |
| th1a | Hi. | 18:00 |
| jinty | hi | 18:00 |
| th1a | Just got done plowing through all that mail. | 18:01 |
| tvon | lots o mail | 18:02 |
| th1a | So, POV: you still have a few things left to finish on the current contract, as we revised it, correct? | 18:02 |
| jinty | build it and they will come, right? | 18:02 |
| th1a | I need to get cracking on the website. | 18:02 |
| alga | rright... | 18:02 |
| th1a | Steer people away from ST 0.9. | 18:02 |
| th1a | alga: That's not a criticism. Just making sure I know where we are. | 18:03 |
| alga | The new event booking is underway | 18:03 |
| bskahan | we still have allday events and timezones | 18:03 |
| alga | The restive views are not yet started | 18:03 |
| alga | also, there's some bug fixing to be done... | 18:03 |
| th1a | Right. | 18:03 |
| bskahan | I'm stuck pretty hard on not being able to pickle UTC tzinfo objects | 18:04 |
| alga | I'm in the middle of an unpleasant security bugfix/refactoring | 18:04 |
| th1a | OK. | 18:04 |
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| mgedmin | bskahan, that should be fixed in zope 3 soon, I think | 18:05 |
| bskahan | mgedmin: yeah, I mailed gary about it | 18:05 |
| th1a | So we have 10 bugs tagged for SchoolBell 1.0? | 18:05 |
| mgedmin | I think we should start tracking Zope 3 trunk again | 18:05 |
| th1a | Two resolved? | 18:05 |
| mgedmin | (currently svn:externals is bound to a specific z3 revision number) | 18:05 |
| ignas | sb 1.0 will have resource booking or will not ? | 18:05 |
| mgedmin | but maybe we should wait until sb 1.0 final is released | 18:05 |
| alga | nope | 18:05 |
| * ignas wants to set priorities straight | 18:06 | |
| mgedmin | to make backporting easier | 18:06 |
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| th1a | 1.0 won't have resource booking. | 18:06 |
| th1a | That'll be in 1.1. | 18:06 |
| bskahan | when are you thinking we'll releasing 1.1? | 18:08 |
| jinty | right after Zope 3.1? | 18:08 |
| th1a | With Zope 3.1 or SchoolTool calendar, whichever comes first. | 18:08 |
| bskahan | ok | 18:09 |
| jinty | perhaps time based again | 18:10 |
| th1a | Well, most of the 1.1 features should be done in a couple weeks. | 18:10 |
| th1a | 1.1 is pretty much the stuff that we had planned but didn't get into 1.0. | 18:11 |
| th1a | So we could in theory do a fairly quick release, but I don't see much incentive to. | 18:11 |
| jinty | SchoolTool calendar == schooltool 0.9 +1? | 18:12 |
| th1a | SchoolTool Calendar == the timetabling and calendar features from 0.9. | 18:12 |
| th1a | There are several changes I'd like to make in the process. | 18:13 |
| th1a | We'll need to discuss them at some point. | 18:13 |
| jinty | ok, maybe later | 18:14 |
| th1a | The past few weeks hasn't seemed like a good time. | 18:14 |
| jinty | understandable | 18:15 |
| th1a | I've been working out the details, however. | 18:16 |
| alga | th1a: well, I guess you should be more at home with school specific functionality, right? | 18:16 |
| th1a | Good lord, I'll be so happy to leave calendaring behind. | 18:16 |
| alga | what about school calendaring? :-) | 18:16 |
| alga | does it still count as calendaring? | 18:16 |
| th1a | Well, it is in-between. | 18:16 |
| bskahan | are we going to include rosters/attendance in Schoolool Calendar? | 18:17 |
| th1a | I think not attendance, because we're shooting for a late April release. | 18:17 |
| th1a | We may have to move that back a bit anyhow. | 18:17 |
| * bskahan nods | 18:18 | |
| th1a | Plus actually doing attendance is one of those mission critical things we can't just knock out and release to the world quickly. | 18:18 |
| alga | what was wrong with attendance as we had it in 0.6 or so? | 18:19 |
| th1a | I'm not saying anything was wrong with it. | 18:19 |
| th1a | But doing the web interface correctly will take a couple weeks, I'd think. | 18:19 |
| alga | true... | 18:19 |
| th1a | It is the sort of functionality that requires longer beta testing, compared to just making calendars. | 18:20 |
| alga | you think so? In my understanding the calendars are much more error-prone... | 18:20 |
| th1a | In the US, at least, attendance overlaps with lots of legal requirements, attendance records can be subpoenaed as evidence in court, etc. | 18:21 |
| alga | probably it should be pluggable? | 18:21 |
| alga | so that each country could make its own attendance module? | 18:21 |
| th1a | That is probably a good idea. | 18:21 |
| alga | In LT, attendance is combined with results tracking | 18:22 |
| alga | there's a large book with "spreadsheets" | 18:22 |
| alga | pupils as rows | 18:22 |
| alga | dates as columns | 18:22 |
| alga | and marks or "absent" in cells | 18:22 |
| th1a | Yes. | 18:23 |
| th1a | Maybe I'm just being pessimistic. | 18:23 |
| alga | probably we could cook up some modules like that | 18:23 |
| bskahan | I'd like to at least expose class "Groups" as rosters | 18:24 |
| th1a | Yes. | 18:24 |
| alga | could you explain? | 18:24 |
| bskahan | which is a part of the path to an attendance sheet | 18:24 |
| th1a | We need to more strongly type "sections." | 18:25 |
| bskahan | currently Biology is just a group in the UI | 18:25 |
| bskahan | but it has all the information we need to expose it as a "Class" in the UI | 18:25 |
| th1a | Having everything as just a group is one of the most confusing things about SchoolTool to users. | 18:25 |
| bskahan | so the teacher can look at his/her groups as "Classes" and see all the students that are members | 18:26 |
| th1a | I was thinking about this last night while lying in bed. | 18:26 |
| bskahan | the UI to display the class is probably the first step to creating the class attendance form | 18:26 |
| alga | th1a: I think having everything as groups is good | 18:26 |
| th1a | btw, what bskahan is calling a "class," I'm calling a "section" | 18:27 |
| alga | it's just that we do not need to expose all groups to users | 18:27 |
| bskahan | thanks | 18:27 |
| alga | in the same way | 18:27 |
| th1a | Well, perhaps we need to set "section" facets. | 18:27 |
| bskahan | I was looking for a better word | 18:27 |
| bskahan | we do need some degree of additional data for Sections | 18:27 |
| bskahan | the teacher and students should all be members of the section, but need to be distinguished | 18:28 |
| alga | subclass membership? | 18:28 |
| alga | member+teacher? | 18:28 |
| bskahan | wouldn't be "member with a URITeaching relationship to this group" | 18:29 |
| bskahan | er, that was "would it be" | 18:29 |
| ignas | i need a glossary of school terms | 18:30 |
| bskahan | an i18n one | 18:30 |
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| bskahan | we probably should come up with an official schooltool glossary, to normalize things like "Class" vs. "Section" | 18:31 |
| alga | yes | 18:31 |
| ignas | xactly | 18:31 |
| th1a | Yes, need to work on the glossary. | 18:31 |
| th1a | Website week. | 18:32 |
| ignas | wiki time | 18:32 |
| th1a | It is hard to do a glossary. | 18:32 |
| bskahan | the attendance form relies on the Timetable, since it should only show the dates that the class occurs | 18:32 |
| th1a | I just sent an email with a document attached covering some of this stuff. | 18:32 |
| th1a | Before we spend the whole meeting talking about a future release... | 18:33 |
| th1a | are there any particular concerns or problems with the 8 bugs left for SB 1.0? | 18:34 |
| th1a | Are we going to get the calendars back in as the default start page? | 18:35 |
| alga | yes | 18:35 |
| alga | that's a cheap one | 18:35 |
| th1a | Good. | 18:35 |
| jinty | can someone explain 173 to me? Is it dangerous security wise | 18:35 |
| alga | security is trickier, but also doable | 18:35 |
| th1a | Security is tricky. | 18:35 |
| bskahan | 173 makes it so users can't view their own events, correct? | 18:36 |
| * jinty thinks releasing with known security bugs a bad idea. | 18:36 | |
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| th1a | I don't think we're planning on doing that, jinty. | 18:37 |
| tvon | argh | 18:37 |
| alga | jinty: it's not a security bug | 18:37 |
| alga | in a sense | 18:37 |
| jinty | Didn't think so either, th1a | 18:37 |
| th1a | OK. | 18:37 |
| alga | it does not grant enough permissions | 18:38 |
| alga | so by defalut people will not be able to see groups, persons, etc | 18:38 |
| alga | after the migration | 18:38 |
| alga | but will be able to use their own calendar | 18:38 |
| jinty | ok, then I am happy with it at priority=bug | 18:39 |
| alga | when you create a new schoolbell instance, an IObjectAddedEvent subscriber grants View to all authenticated users | 18:39 |
| alga | so that all users can see names, photos of other users | 18:39 |
| alga | it is not done in the migration | 18:39 |
| alga | cheap to fix, as well | 18:39 |
| alga | just call the subscriber | 18:39 |
| mgedmin | um, is that enough? | 18:40 |
| mgedmin | won't the subscriber want IAnnotatable adapters and stuff? | 18:40 |
| mgedmin | does the importer set up those adapters? | 18:40 |
| mgedmin | ah, it does | 18:41 |
| mgedmin | never mind | 18:41 |
| jinty | :) | 18:41 |
| mgedmin | hey, alga, waitasec | 18:41 |
| mgedmin | when you start ./schoolbell-server.py | 18:41 |
| mgedmin | there is no ObjectAddedEvent | 18:41 |
| mgedmin | is there? | 18:41 |
| bskahan | aren't view permissions turned off for regular users? | 18:41 |
| bskahan | did that change fairly recently? | 18:42 |
| bskahan | running a clean instance (no upgrade) here, created a user | 18:43 |
| mgedmin | baad | 18:43 |
| bskahan | don't have view permissions on /persons | 18:43 |
| mgedmin | bug #1: bootstrapSchoolBell does not send an ObjectAddedEvent for the schoolbell application, so anonymous users do not get view permission | 18:44 |
| mgedmin | bug #2: schoolbell-import.py does not send ObjectAddedEvents for persons/groups/resources, thus they do not get default permissions | 18:44 |
| mgedmin | wait, no there is no bug #2 | 18:44 |
| mgedmin | person_container['foo'] = Person(...) sends the ObjectAddedEvent | 18:45 |
| tvon | lovely | 18:45 |
| bskahan | th1a: offtopic, maybe send that email to the regular ST list as well? | 18:46 |
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| th1a | I have been planning on doing that. | 18:47 |
| th1a | I guess it is a good time. | 18:47 |
| bskahan | newly created users also don't have permission to view /persons/joesomeone | 18:47 |
| th1a | Is that themselves or others? | 18:48 |
| bskahan | others | 18:48 |
| alga | that's the same bug | 18:48 |
| alga | 173 | 18:48 |
| th1a | So that's not intentional? I just assumed it was. | 18:49 |
| alga | the View permission is weak | 18:49 |
| alga | it should not be given only in the ultra-paranoid envirnment | 18:49 |
| alga | such as a US K12 school | 18:49 |
| alga | but for a "groupware" use case, I think it should be on | 18:50 |
| th1a | Yes, I agree. | 18:50 |
| th1a | We can let up for a moment on the paranoia in SchoolBell. | 18:50 |
| jinty | ok, 176, is there a patch available somewhere? | 18:50 |
| mgedmin | I don't think so | 18:51 |
| * mgedmin checks http://www.zope.org/Collectors/Zope3-dev/377 | 18:52 | |
| * jinty checked before he asked the question | 18:52 | |
| jinty | If not, I will ust put a reference to http://www.zope.org/Collectors/Zope3-dev/377 into the release notes | 18:53 |
| jinty | s/ust/just/ | 18:53 |
| alga | makes sense | 18:54 |
| * jinty is otherwise happy, :) | 18:54 | |
| th1a | bskahan: so your tzinfo problem is also a Zope 3 bug? | 18:54 |
| bskahan | a pytz bug really | 18:54 |
| bskahan | but being worked on for Zope | 18:55 |
| th1a | Are you going to be able to work around that? | 18:55 |
| bskahan | I've hacked around it to do preferred rendering but to get the whole thing working right, I'm not sure | 18:57 |
| alga | There's one thing is schoolbell that annoys me a bit | 18:57 |
| th1a | I was reading the weblog of another calendaring project, they were talking about the problem in handling daylight savings time when you store times as UTC. | 18:57 |
| alga | There's no read-only view for calendar event details | 18:58 |
| th1a | You have to make sure that repeating meetings, etc. don't shift an hour. | 18:58 |
| th1a | alga: +1 | 18:58 |
| * bskahan nods | 18:59 | |
| alga | we could make a read-only view in essence listing the info | 18:59 |
| alga | using basically the same logic as the event edit view does | 18:59 |
| ignas | that would solve the breadcrumb of the event too | 18:59 |
| alga | yes | 18:59 |
| th1a | Ah. | 19:00 |
| ignas | alga: +1 | 19:00 |
| th1a | Sounds good to me. | 19:00 |
| alga | for the short term (1.0), I'd still make it redirect to edit | 19:00 |
| jinty | alga: +1 | 19:00 |
| alga | later on, we should modify the calendar views to link to edit/view depending on perms | 19:01 |
| bskahan | anyone know a span equivalent to widget_row, for putting 2 widgets side my side? | 19:02 |
| bskahan | s/my/by/ | 19:02 |
| alga | you need to render these by hand | 19:03 |
| alga | see the event edit view | 19:03 |
| bskahan | alga: thanks | 19:03 |
| alga | the start of the recurrence section | 19:03 |
| alga | repeat every [ 1] [days [v]] | 19:04 |
| th1a | The "formal" meeting is over, btw. | 19:04 |
| tvon | I need to run ;) | 19:05 |
| tvon | I'm stealing a pulic Ubuntu box at the moment, need to get back to my stuff | 19:05 |
| tvon | bye all | 19:05 |
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| bskahan | oh, that's annoying (alot of tal to avoid a line break) | 19:09 |
| * jinty would become a roundup fanatic if the mails were threaded in mutt | 19:13 | |
| alga | :) | 19:13 |
| alga | that's actually feasible, isn't it? :-) | 19:14 |
| jinty | I'm sure its quite easy | 19:14 |
| bskahan | mutt threads very nicely | 19:15 |
| jinty | but not for roundup for me | 19:16 |
| jinty | I think its a missing "In-Reply-To: msgid" header | 19:17 |
| jinty | that roundup somehow loses | 19:18 |
| mgedmin | jinty, file a wishlist bug | 19:21 |
| * jinty goes looking for roundup's roundup | 19:22 | |
| mgedmin | I'm afraid you'll find roundup uses the sourceforge issue tracker, ick! | 19:23 |
| jinty | gaak | 19:23 |
| mgedmin | <rhetoricalWail>why???</rhetoricalWail> | 19:24 |
| th1a | So apparently, my little Basecamp exploration last week was in the middle of this: http://www.loudthinking.com/arc/000415.html | 19:25 |
| * jinty thinks our roundup is 0.6 and 0.8 is out | 19:26 | |
| * mgedmin agrees | 19:27 | |
| jinty | <ThreeDotsInSmallTriangle> wishlist bug = probably a bad idea | 19:28 |
| mgedmin | what? | 19:29 |
| jinty | therefore | 19:29 |
| mgedmin | ah | 19:30 |
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| jinty | roundups CHANGES.txt shows tentitive steps towards threading messages in 0.4 | 19:40 |
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| jinty | th1a: you want to be able to run zope directly from the schoolbell tarball? | 19:57 |
| th1a | Uh... I'm not sure if I do or not. | 19:59 |
| th1a | I just don't want things that look like they should work to generate errors. | 19:59 |
| th1a | So either they should be hidden or they should work. | 19:59 |
| jinty | yep, but how to hide? | 20:00 |
| mgedmin | rm -rf | 20:00 |
| th1a | :-) | 20:00 |
| jinty | I think it is only a matter of including the right config files | 20:01 |
| jinty | but I am clueless and trial and error takes such a looooong time | 20:01 |
| th1a | It isn't a high priority. | 20:04 |
| jinty | but cheers! | 20:04 |
| jinty | ok, then thats that | 20:04 |
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