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| th1a | jinty: | 22:35 |
|---|---|---|
| th1a | jinty: just got your email | 22:35 |
| jinty | ah, and? Does it fit with your idea of a community process? | 22:39 |
| jinty | a little bit of a social experiment on my part;) | 22:40 |
| th1a | Was it a joke? | 22:40 |
| th1a | I'm a little confused. | 22:41 |
| jinty | no, serious, i think the writer of the spec shouldn't have any own ideas. only listen | 22:41 |
| th1a | Oh. I think I'm refering to a different email. | 22:41 |
| th1a | I meant the earlier one. | 22:42 |
| th1a | I just saw the "Bringing stories..." email. | 22:42 |
| th1a | OK. That looks good. | 22:43 |
| jinty | yes, that is the one i mean. I want to run every story by the community before it becomes a specification | 22:43 |
| th1a | That's a good idea. | 22:43 |
| th1a | The fact of the matter is that the community is largely mute, for various reasons. | 22:44 |
| th1a | But we have to try anyhow. | 22:44 |
| jinty | I know, but I don't mind sending a lot of mails like that to the list. | 22:44 |
| th1a | I'm going to try to be more open in the process of drafting the next round of specs for POV/Etria as well. | 22:45 |
| th1a | The primary challenge is getting started early enough. | 22:45 |
| jinty | Good, I think the list is much better because it creates a public record. | 22:46 |
| th1a | Agreed. | 22:46 |
| jinty | Yes, to discuss every point can take months | 22:47 |
| jinty | im not expecting anything fast from the timetabling spec | 22:47 |
| th1a | Good. Because what I'm thinking is that I should spend the next few weeks working out how curriculum will work and have that done in December, which will then make it much easier to do both timetabling and scheduling. | 22:48 |
| jinty | yes, I wanted to talk to you about that. | 22:49 |
| th1a | I've been thinking about curriculum, grade levels, etc. | 22:49 |
| th1a | I think we'll need to use state machines. | 22:49 |
| jinty | don't know anything about curriculum or grade levels. | 22:50 |
| jinty | what is the use of a state macine? | 22:50 |
| jinty | for this situation. | 22:51 |
| th1a | So in the standard US high school, you have four grade levels (9 -12). | 22:51 |
| th1a | Each grade level will be represented by a different state. | 22:51 |
| th1a | The transition from on state to the next is triggered by specific events. | 22:52 |
| jinty | such as passing exams? | 22:52 |
| th1a | Not in US high schools, actually, but probably in the UK. | 22:52 |
| th1a | I think the basic pattern of a state machine should cover the various international differences. | 22:53 |
| th1a | In the US you pass if you get a passing grade for the semester overall, which isn't tied to a specific exam, btw. | 22:53 |
| th1a | Generally. | 22:54 |
| jinty | Ok, so the state macine is the basic infrastructure and the transitions are the customizations. | 22:54 |
| th1a | So your scheduling app wants to be able to get the state of each student to determine which classes they require or are eligible for. | 22:55 |
| th1a | Yeah. The state machine is the basic model. | 22:55 |
| th1a | The states and transitions would be customized. Mostly by country. | 22:55 |
| jinty | but this type of specification is a long time away for the scheduling app. | 22:56 |
| jinty | I mean that the inital work will be in creating something that can solve ANY timetabling problem | 22:56 |
| jinty | with some way of adding customizations for a specific type of problem | 22:57 |
| th1a | Yeah. My perspective on this is skewed, because I'm only worried about defining the constraints. | 22:57 |
| th1a | I'm sure we can find someone to solve the combinatorial problem, once we've properly defined it. | 22:58 |
| jinty | you mean automatically solving the timetable? | 22:59 |
| th1a | Check this out: http://www.pms.ifi.lmu.de/publikationen/PMS-FB/PMS-DISS-2003-1.pdf | 22:59 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 22:59 |
| jinty | that is the point of the TTML. That all problems can be converted to TTML. | 23:00 |
| th1a | Right. | 23:00 |
| jinty | therefore, in theory a automatic solver for TTML can solve ANY timetabling problem. | 23:01 |
| th1a | Right. | 23:01 |
| jinty | It makes for an ideal interface because we can let the automatic solver people do what they want | 23:02 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 23:02 |
| th1a | So are there such automatic solvers? | 23:03 |
| th1a | Or is that what we're paying for? | 23:03 |
| jinty | Dr Ozcan has one | 23:04 |
| jinty | At least he solves a sample TTML problem with one | 23:04 |
| jinty | but i have no idea about it | 23:05 |
| th1a | Hm. So really, we could go ahead an pay for work on a TTML solver right now. | 23:05 |
| jinty | Yeah | 23:05 |
| th1a | What do you think about the idea of having a contest? | 23:06 |
| jinty | We just have to be carefull, they may write a solver for a basic TTML problem | 23:06 |
| jinty | i.e. not taking into account all of the constraints we need. | 23:07 |
| th1a | Well, but we could write a problem that included all the mathematically significant types of constraints, right? | 23:08 |
| jinty | probably first we need to make a TTML problem that can be a reference problem for them to solve | 23:08 |
| th1a | Right. | 23:08 |
| th1a | I guess I need to dig into TTML a bit more. | 23:08 |
| th1a | Past a certain point, though, this is way more math than I can grok. | 23:08 |
| jinty | using all the functionality we need. Then base the competition on that. | 23:08 |
| jinty | It took me a while to get my head around it, but I still havn't fully comprehended it. | 23:09 |
| th1a | Hm. So really, we could give the timetabling algorithm geeks something to do. | 23:10 |
| th1a | Which is my primary short term objective... | 23:10 |
| jinty | Unleash the wild horses, yes:) | 23:10 |
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