| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 19 13:55:55 2004 | ||
| -->You are now talking on #schooltool | 13:55 | |
| ---Topic for #schooltool is http://schooltool.org | 13:55 | |
| ---Topic for #schooltool set by Aiste at Mon Oct 18 12:47:26 2004 | 13:55 | |
| -->alga (~alga@office.pov.lt) has joined #SchoolTool | 14:42 | |
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| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 19 20:04:50 2004 | ||
| -->You are now talking on #schooltool | 20:04 | |
| ---Topic for #schooltool is http://schooltool.org | 20:04 | |
| ---Topic for #schooltool set by Aiste at Mon Oct 18 12:47:26 2004 | 20:04 | |
| ---#schooltool :[freenode-info] please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify! http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup | 20:04 | |
| <--thisfred has quit ("Farewell, cruel channel...") | 20:26 | |
| alga | oh, hi th1a | 20:52 |
|---|---|---|
| th1a | hi alga | 20:52 |
| alga | it is also not allowed to put teabags into a kettle :-) | 20:53 |
| th1a | So I altered datagen.py to add all the users to the root group. | 20:53 |
| alga | I think it is a bad idea | 20:53 |
| th1a | Well, it is necessary if we are going to restrict membership in a group to members of its immediate parents. | 20:55 |
| th1a | I don't really understand the purpose of the root group, other than just helping navigation. | 20:55 |
| alga | it is just a help for navigation | 20:56 |
| alga | the entry point | 20:57 |
| th1a | The only problem that adding people to the root groups creates is that it adds a big list of people to the root group page. | 21:00 |
| th1a | problem is that... | 21:00 |
| -->sabdfl (~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #schooltool | 21:28 | |
| <--sabdfl (~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has left #schooltool | 21:28 | |
| pere | Is the client in the debian archive supposed to be able to contact demo.schooltool.org? | 21:45 |
| th1a | wxclient, should be able to. | 21:46 |
| pere | hm, I misread the instructions. The instructions mentioned the manager user, so I tried to use it when connecting to the server. This gave 401 access denied. | 21:47 |
| pere | when I didn't specify the user, I was able to connect. | 21:47 |
| pere | the instructions didn't say anything about ssl, so I tried that first. This made wxschooltool hang completely. | 21:47 |
| th1a | The wxclient is pretty much deprecated, actually. | 21:50 |
| mgedmin | it is probably timing out... | 21:50 |
| pere | th1a: so, which client in the debian package should I use to connect to demo.s.o? | 21:50 |
| th1a | Well... we're moving primarily to a browser interface. | 21:51 |
| th1a | So you really should run a server locally if you want a proper demo at this point. | 21:52 |
| mgedmin | pere: I'm afraid that you need SchoolTool Milestone 5 to connect to the demo server | 21:52 |
| mgedmin | newer clients might not work with an older server version | 21:52 |
| th1a | Yeah. We've forgotten about keeping the demo server up to date. | 21:52 |
| pere | mgedmin: sounds to me like you need to stabilize the protocol, and make it extendable without breaking backwards compatibility. :) | 21:53 |
| mgedmin | eventually, yes | 21:53 |
| th1a | How much is involved in upgrading the demo server? | 21:53 |
| th1a | It's too early. | 21:53 |
| mgedmin | what do you mean about upgrading | 21:53 |
| mgedmin | should the new demo server allow users to connect via http as well as with schooltool clients? | 21:53 |
| th1a | I mean, when we're done with the current milestone, installing it on the demo server. | 21:54 |
| mgedmin | a day or two, perhaps | 21:54 |
| th1a | Yeah. It should be primarily http. | 21:54 |
| th1a | Hm. Maybe that'll have to be the first thing on the following contract. | 21:54 |
| mgedmin | http access in addition to RESTive access means extra firewall rules and extra apache rewrite rules | 21:55 |
| mgedmin | in addition to just upgrading the software | 21:55 |
| Aiste | and hopefully all that would be on the new server that Mark puts up | 21:55 |
| th1a | OK. Yeah. | 21:55 |
| -->stockholm (~andi@petrus.schuldei.org) has joined #schooltool | 22:10 | |
| stockholm | huhu! | 22:10 |
| stockholm | what options does schooltool provide for exporting user data? | 22:10 |
| stockholm | i am thinking right now of annual changes at the end/beginning of terms | 22:11 |
| th1a | Right now we just have some simple csv formats. | 22:11 |
| stockholm | and what data do you export? | 22:11 |
| th1a | Right now we don't have much data frankly. Users and group memberships. I'm not sure if we can export attendance data. | 22:12 |
| stockholm | i am interested i information like "user foo changed from 4th grade to 5th grade" | 22:12 |
| stockholm | or even "teacher A married and is now called B" | 22:13 |
| stockholm | do you have such data? | 22:13 |
| th1a | Well... SchoolTool is scriptable via a web services interface, so depending on what you're trying to do it might be easier to do by writing external scripts than exporting a chunk of data. | 22:13 |
| stockholm | and would you routinly export it to the schools network? | 22:14 |
| th1a | So you want to export a list of changes that were made over a given period of time? | 22:14 |
| stockholm | yes, preferably tat. | 22:14 |
| stockholm | that | 22:14 |
| th1a | Well, scripts could be written to do that. | 22:14 |
| th1a | How would you use this data? | 22:15 |
| stockholm | we in skolelinux/debian-edu would like to use your that data to update cerebrum, a meta-directory which updates students group memberships and permissions, takes care of automated user administration (like moving people`s $HOME between partions or keeps their data in sync over system (samba, unix, kerberos, AFS) | 22:16 |
| stockholm | meta-directory here is a term for a storage system that exports to other directories like ldap, nis etc | 22:17 |
| th1a | Ah. OK. I'd think we'd be able to do that closer to real time, rather than an export at the end of a time period. | 22:17 |
| stockholm | or even Active Directory. | 22:17 |
| stockholm | keeping the data in sync and consistent | 22:17 |
| th1a | Yeah. I'm trying to get a handle on Cerebrum. So it's role is to coordinate different user admin systems. | 22:18 |
| stockholm | th1a: yes, that would be our wish too, but there are some countries (as germany) who prescribe by law that the administrative network (aka schooltool) has to be physically seperated from the school network | 22:19 |
| stockholm | kind of. | 22:19 |
| th1a | I'm planning on installing Cerebrum on my Linux box later today. | 22:19 |
| stockholm | i am prepareing a debian package, but it is not fuctional, because cerebrum is not at all trivial to configure and has no documentation yet | 22:20 |
| stockholm | i need to update it to the latest cvs version. | 22:20 |
| th1a | So Cerebrum has to sit on the school network and schooltool has to sit on the admin network. | 22:20 |
| stockholm | yes. | 22:20 |
| stockholm | for schools in germany real-time syncing is not feasable. | 22:20 |
| th1a | OK should I get cerebrum from cvs then? I suspect that it won't actually do anything on my desktop box anyhow... | 22:20 |
| th1a | Hm. | 22:21 |
| stockholm | no, dont get it yet. it will take a days or two | 22:21 |
| stockholm | to get it in shape again. | 22:21 |
| th1a | OK. | 22:21 |
| th1a | So what is the front end for cerebrum? | 22:21 |
| stockholm | we are deploying it on our server right now and one of the developers is about to look at the thing tomorrow | 22:21 |
| stockholm | there are several: we want to hide it as well as possibel (since it can be quite complex and would confuse normal teachers) by using our webmin user-admin interface | 22:22 |
| pere | stockholm: as far as I remember, the import cerebrum expext is on the for person XXX YY with unique ID # is taking class ZZZZZ | 22:22 |
| stockholm | th1a: then there is a commandline tool and a javagui | 22:23 |
| th1a | OK. | 22:23 |
| stockholm | and around christmas the webinterface will be in beta | 22:23 |
| pere | stockholm: at least the XML format Mathias is working on is like this. | 22:23 |
| th1a | Do other European countries other than Germany have this split network requirement? | 22:24 |
| stockholm | pere: i see. | 22:24 |
| stockholm | th1a: i just tried to find our about norway, but no one answered. | 22:24 |
| stockholm | i will try to find out more. | 22:24 |
| stockholm | about other countries. | 22:24 |
| pere | norway will get away with having a firewall between the teachers and the pupils network. | 22:25 |
| pere | norwegian authoraties have great fait in firewalls. | 22:25 |
| stockholm | th1a: the physical seperation could be provided by wifi. (c: | 22:25 |
| stockholm | th1a: (this is my favorit joke about the situation, please laugh) | 22:25 |
| th1a | I'm a little puzzled, actually. | 22:26 |
| stockholm | why? | 22:26 |
| th1a | But I guess you can't use wifi in German schools. | 22:26 |
| th1a | Maybe with authentication. | 22:27 |
| stockholm | th1a: wifi would be a horrendous securtiy hole. it cant be permitted for sensitive data | 22:27 |
| th1a | These are headaches I'm glad we don't have. | 22:27 |
| stockholm | th1a: that is the us? | 22:27 |
| th1a | Yes. | 22:27 |
| <--alga has quit ("g'night") | 22:27 | |
| th1a | I've visited schools where their data was stored on an ASP server that didn't even use SSL. | 22:28 |
| pere | th1a: the schooltool project will have to consider these issues if it is to be usable in norway and germany. I belive most european countries have privacy laws. | 22:28 |
| stockholm | oh, sure. but most people are just ignorant, i guess the seperation rule is caused by that | 22:28 |
| th1a | Sure. I know we need to deal with it. | 22:29 |
| th1a | OK, so in one form or another we need to be able to export a list of changes from SchoolTool and carry them over to the other network to import into Cerebrum. | 22:30 |
| stockholm | yes, that would be good. | 22:30 |
| stockholm | cerebrum uses cxml | 22:30 |
| stockholm | bah | 22:30 |
| stockholm | xml | 22:30 |
| th1a | So that format is a work in progress? | 22:31 |
| th1a | Your xml? | 22:31 |
| stockholm | but generally it can use all kinds or input filters. | 22:31 |
| stockholm | moment, looking for a link. | 22:31 |
| stockholm | pere, do you have it handy? | 22:31 |
| pere | searching... | 22:31 |
| stockholm | http://folk.uio.no/baardj/feide2go/feide2go.html | 22:34 |
| stockholm | pere: is that it? | 22:34 |
| pere | stockholm: yes. | 22:34 |
| stockholm | th1a: this can still change, but it shows well what it could look like | 22:36 |
| th1a | OK. Thanks. | 22:36 |
| stockholm | th1a: in my oppinion we need to be able to group whole years together in age-groups like "freshmen", etc | 22:37 |
| th1a | Yes. | 22:37 |
| stockholm | that is missing in that schema. | 22:37 |
| th1a | OK. | 22:38 |
| ---Disconnected (). | 22:38 | |
| **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 19 22:38:47 2004 | ||
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