| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 24 12:28:02 2004 | ||
| -->You are now talking on #schooltool | 12:28 | |
| ---Topic for #schooltool is www.schooltool.org || IRC logs at http://stone.tuttlesvc.org:880/logbot/ | 12:28 | |
| ---Topic for #schooltool set by mgedmin at Fri Jul 16 18:15:52 2004 | 12:28 | |
| -TomLogging-This channel is logged - http://stone.tuttlesvc.org:880/logbot/ | 12:28 | |
| -->thisfred (~thisfred@a213-84-57-72.adsl.xs4all.nl) has joined #schooltool | 12:35 | |
| -->jinty (~jinty@80.28.147.253) has joined #schooltool | 14:20 | |
| -->alga (~alga@office.pov.lt) has joined #SchoolTool | 15:18 | |
| <--jinty (~jinty@80.28.147.253) has left #schooltool | 15:42 | |
| ---You are now known as mg|lunch | 16:31 | |
| -->th1a (~hoffman@68-233-81-160.pittpa.adelphia.net) has joined #schooltool | 16:47 | |
| th1a | alga: I just responded to your email about default acls. | 16:48 |
|---|---|---|
| alga | thanks, I responded back :-) | 17:09 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:13 |
| th1a | By default, any personal info should be very locked down. | 17:13 |
| alga | the thing is the story includes delegating manager rights | 17:14 |
| th1a | For calendars. | 17:14 |
| th1a | But private by default. | 17:14 |
| th1a | I'm still a little confused about what you're asking. | 17:15 |
| alga | ok | 17:15 |
| alga | it was I who was confused | 17:15 |
| alga | I found a sentence "A manager should be able to delegate the manager role for a group or resource." in the story | 17:16 |
| th1a | Right. | 17:16 |
| alga | and went pulling the ACLs over all views, such as members of a group, etc. | 17:16 |
| th1a | Ultimately that needs to be done, but perhaps not now. | 17:17 |
| alga | OK | 17:17 |
| alga | so the story only includes calendar access? | 17:17 |
| alga | in that case, the manager permission will mean ability to edit the ACL, that is to grant other users rights to the calendar one is managing | 17:18 |
| th1a | The idea is that... | 17:19 |
| th1a | the SchoolTool manager should be able to make the Librarian... | 17:20 |
| th1a | the manager of the Library resource, for example. | 17:20 |
| th1a | Now, we don't want the Librarian to be able to make further delegations. | 17:20 |
| alga | what would being a manager of the library allow? | 17:21 |
| alga | booking? | 17:21 |
| th1a | Or perhaps it is not so important that the Librarian be able to manage the Library itself, but the groups associated with it. | 17:21 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 17:21 |
| alga | ah | 17:22 |
| th1a | Or deleting events. | 17:22 |
| alga | but managing groups is adding/removing members | 17:22 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 17:22 |
| alga | so, does that go into this story? | 17:22 |
| th1a | So the SchoolTool manager would set it up so that there was, say, a "Library Staff" group, but the Librarian would be able to add and remove people from the "Library Staff" group. | 17:23 |
| th1a | I think we're refining the story. | 17:23 |
| th1a | Simplifying it, really. | 17:24 |
| alga | now, the title of the story is "Resource/Group calendar management" | 17:24 |
| alga | the question is: is it really just about calendars? | 17:24 |
| th1a | Insofar as I can't think of why we need to delegate manager privileges for resources. | 17:24 |
| alga | your current answer is: no | 17:24 |
| alga | Setting up access to calendars is pretty much done. | 17:25 |
| alga | all I have to do is implement the same in the restive views. | 17:26 |
| th1a | When we were making up these stories, we weren't thinking about access control to other parts of the system. | 17:26 |
| alga | Alright. | 17:27 |
| th1a | So I don't want to add that to your work. | 17:27 |
| th1a | I'd consider that outside the scope of the current milestone. | 17:28 |
| alga | If we limit 'manager permission' to 'adding/removing members', that's easy | 17:28 |
| th1a | It makes it all much cleaner. | 17:28 |
| alga | the problem is that there's a lot of thing a manager can do via the restive interface | 17:28 |
| th1a | From our end at least... | 17:28 |
| th1a | Right. | 17:29 |
| th1a | I spent some time with the app last night. | 17:29 |
| th1a | There's one significant issue with the timetable schema generation. | 17:30 |
| alga | ? | 17:30 |
| th1a | If you are setting up a timetable schema that doesn't correspond to days of the week, | 17:31 |
| th1a | i.e., a sequential time table, | 17:32 |
| th1a | Then when you are defining the start end end times for the period, you shouldn't have the days of the week across the top row, | 17:33 |
| th1a | But the days in the cycle. | 17:33 |
| alga | well, it's the way our timetabling is | 17:33 |
| alga | Steve heard on the list from someone from the States, | 17:34 |
| alga | probably you, | 17:34 |
| alga | that it is possible, that Wednesdays, for example, | 17:34 |
| alga | are always shorter that other days | 17:34 |
| th1a | Oh! | 17:34 |
| alga | all periods are shorter to allow for some event in the afternoon | 17:35 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:35 |
| th1a | Right. | 17:35 |
| th1a | I'll probably change the text on the page to make it clearer. | 17:35 |
| alga | OK | 17:36 |
| th1a | Forgot about my own weird edge case. | 17:36 |
| alga | :) | 17:37 |
| th1a | So right now, if you don't have a weird schedule with periods of different lengths on different days, you have to enter the same times monday through friday. | 17:37 |
| alga | I guess so | 17:37 |
| alga | Marius was programming the wizard | 17:37 |
| alga | so I can't tell if there's any magic in it | 17:38 |
| th1a | Which is very good, overall. | 17:38 |
| alga | I'm glad to hear that | 17:38 |
| alga | Marius was quite inspired while doing it, too | 17:38 |
| th1a | So "time period" refers to a block of time like a semester? | 17:39 |
| th1a | Is "semester" used internationally? | 17:39 |
| alga | well, in Russia, they have quarters | 17:40 |
| alga | quadrimesters :-) | 17:40 |
| alga | in lithuania, we have trimesters | 17:40 |
| alga | semesters are only used in colleges and universities | 17:40 |
| th1a | Do they call them "quadrimesters" in Russia? | 17:40 |
| alga | "chetvert'", which is Russian for "quarter" | 17:41 |
| alga | in russia, they are delimited by vacations | 17:41 |
| alga | 1 Sep - fall vacation | 17:41 |
| th1a | But the meaning of "semester" is at least recognized in English? "Time Period" is a bit too abstract. | 17:41 |
| alga | well, time periods can be semesters, but also can be the whole year, if the schedule is the same, etc | 17:42 |
| th1a | OK. I'll think about terminology. | 17:42 |
| alga | if you say that schedules are universally produced for semesters, they can be semesters | 17:42 |
| alga | our timetabling is quite abstract, but it gets clearer if there are examples | 17:43 |
| alga | "Time periods (such as semesters)" | 17:43 |
| th1a | Sure. | 17:43 |
| th1a | Tim has a bunch of examples of crazy timetables, I need to sit down and see how many of them we can actually model. | 17:44 |
| alga | *sigh* | 17:44 |
| alga | Steve should have done that last autumn | 17:45 |
| alga | Unfortunately, he didn't have all those examples :-) | 17:45 |
| alga | By the way | 17:45 |
| th1a | Well, we're pretty dependent on people chiming in with examples, and it just so happened that Tim did a ton of research for his own app. | 17:45 |
| alga | we have two models implemented | 17:45 |
| th1a | I think it is good. | 17:46 |
| alga | but arbitrarily crazy models can be defined in python code | 17:46 |
| alga | they get a schoolday calendar and have to generate a calendar | 17:46 |
| th1a | Apparently is is pretty common in California to have, within one school and one student's schedule, half the classes running on a semester schedule and half running on a trimester schedule. | 17:47 |
| alga | their inner workings can be arbitrary | 17:47 |
| th1a | I'd never heard of that. | 17:47 |
| alga | ha, we can easily accomodate the Californian example :-) | 17:49 |
| th1a | Oh. Good. | 17:50 |
| alga | just define several parallel time periods, and several timetable schemas | 17:50 |
| th1a | Ah. | 17:51 |
| th1a | I need to sit down and make a few schemas. | 17:51 |
| alga | by the way, we're close to the finish | 17:52 |
| th1a | Seems that way. | 17:52 |
| alga | it's time to think what has to be generalized for the release | 17:52 |
| th1a | In terms of a non-school release? | 17:52 |
| alga | do we make just a schoolbell release now? | 17:52 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 17:52 |
| th1a | There are just a few changes in terminology necessary. | 17:53 |
| th1a | Also, should this be SchoolBell 0.1? | 17:53 |
| th1a | We need to start having release numbers. | 17:53 |
| alga | *shrug* | 17:53 |
| th1a | SchoolBell 0.1 makes sense to me. | 17:53 |
| alga | internally, milestone 6 is written down as version 0.6 | 17:53 |
| alga | in the server version string, for instance | 17:54 |
| th1a | So SchoolBell 0.8? | 17:54 |
| th1a | 0.7 | 17:54 |
| alga | 2.1 :-) | 17:54 |
| th1a | Hut! | 17:54 |
| th1a | Sorry more American football references. | 17:54 |
| th1a | Did you watch that basketball game on Friday? | 17:56 |
| th1a | Saturday? | 17:56 |
| th1a | US v. Lithuania. | 17:56 |
| alga | erm, no, but I heard about it in real time | 17:56 |
| th1a | I'm losing track of the days. | 17:56 |
| alga | I was at hairdresser's, and I actually have drawn her off the TV screen | 17:57 |
| alga | I'm not a big fan of basketball | 17:57 |
| alga | I like individual sports better | 17:57 |
| alga | but, what's "Hut!". WordNet, Webster, Everything2 and Wikipedia are of no help | 17:58 |
| th1a | When the quarterback want the ball handed to him to start a play he calls out some signals, which may be a series of numbers "7, 8, 21" then "hut" when he wants the ball. | 17:59 |
| alga | OK | 18:02 |
| alga | If we consider this release useful in practice, it makes sense to call it version 1.0 | 18:02 |
| ---You are now known as mgedmin | 18:05 | |
| th1a | Well, by free software standards, there are lots of useful applications that aren't at 1.0. | 18:06 |
| th1a | We're more like FireFox 0.7 than Windows 1.0 | 18:06 |
| alga | right | 18:08 |
| th1a | We're going to need to have a meeting at some point to discuss the schedule going forward. | 18:10 |
| th1a | I'm going to fly down to Baltimore next Friday to meet with the guys from Etria and decide if they'd be a good second team. | 18:11 |
| alga | curious :-) | 18:17 |
| mgedmin | regarding the timetable schema creation form | 18:18 |
| th1a | Yes? | 18:18 |
| mgedmin | I had a couple of ideas | 18:18 |
| mgedmin | to make the time definition less tedious | 18:18 |
| mgedmin | one idea was a text box at the bottom defining the period length | 18:18 |
| mgedmin | so that the user could enter just "9:00", "10:00" etc. in the input boxes | 18:19 |
| mgedmin | that is, starting times | 18:19 |
| th1a | That would be helpful in most cases. | 18:19 |
| mgedmin | another idea was a button to copy monday's periods to all other days (except weekends) | 18:19 |
| th1a | That would almost always be helpful. | 18:19 |
| mgedmin | because I think they will usually be the same, except for some corner cases | 18:19 |
| mgedmin | then I thought that I should talk about this on irc before implementing those shortcuts | 18:20 |
| mgedmin | as I'm biased towards Lithuanian timetabling conventions | 18:20 |
| th1a | Just make sure it isn't difficult to add a couple periods of odd length, like homeroom and lunch. | 18:20 |
| mgedmin | and thought it possible that other shortcuts might make more sense | 18:20 |
| mgedmin | I think it is best if the user can enter either "HH:MM-HH:MM" or just "HH-MM" | 18:21 |
| mgedmin | that is, individual periods can always be of a different length | 18:21 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 18:21 |
| th1a | Did you define some widgets for the timetable schema pages that can be reused elsewhere? | 18:22 |
| mgedmin | yes | 18:23 |
| th1a | Cool. | 18:23 |
| mgedmin | I defined the simple text edit widgets that are used for entering the name at the very top | 18:23 |
| mgedmin | the rest -- all those matrices -- is custom code | 18:23 |
| mgedmin | I do not think it is very reusable | 18:23 |
| th1a | Ah. | 18:23 |
| mgedmin | (other than looking at it and perhaps copying/pasting) | 18:23 |
| th1a | Sure. | 18:24 |
| mgedmin | in general, it has a very specific purpose | 18:24 |
| mgedmin | and I though that trying to force it into a widget-like shape would be counter-productive | 18:24 |
| th1a | Yeah. It is a very particular little task. | 18:24 |
| mgedmin | th1a: did you read yesterday's irc log? | 18:25 |
| th1a | Oh, no I didn't. | 18:25 |
| mgedmin | the bit about the change of the REST FAQ | 18:25 |
| mgedmin | the schooltool website needs to be updated to point to the new location of the faq | 18:25 |
| alga | th1a: one more question about default ACLs | 18:26 |
| alga | are you sure group calendars have to be editable by the group members? | 18:27 |
| alga | it looks weird if you think about large groups, like Pupils | 18:27 |
| th1a | I suppose not. | 18:27 |
| alga | OK | 18:27 |
| alga | so, publically viewable, editable by managers | 18:27 |
| th1a | Since groups can be such vastly different things, I guess they need to be restrictive by default. | 18:28 |
| th1a | mgedmin: the link to the REST wiki was only in the source, but I'll add it to the website now. | 18:32 |
| mgedmin | oh | 18:32 |
| mgedmin | I assumed it was on the website | 18:32 |
| ---Disconnected (). | 18:49 | |
| **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Aug 24 18:49:36 2004 | ||
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 24 20:55:01 2004 | ||
| -->You are now talking on #schooltool | 20:55 | |
| ---Topic for #schooltool is www.schooltool.org || IRC logs at http://stone.tuttlesvc.org:880/logbot/ | 20:55 | |
| ---Topic for #schooltool set by mgedmin at Fri Jul 16 18:15:52 2004 | 20:55 | |
| -TomLogging-This channel is logged - http://stone.tuttlesvc.org:880/logbot/ | 20:55 | |
| <--Aiste has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | 21:08 | |
| <--thisfred has quit ("Farewell, cruel channel...") | 21:09 | |
| -->Aiste (~aiste@adsl-213-190-44-43.takas.lt) has joined #schooltool | 21:12 | |
| mgedmin | th1a: I've updated the timetable schema form as discussed | 23:12 |
| <--alga has quit ("leaving") | 23:41 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!